bajajoaquin Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I came across a video channel by Rowan Taylor lately, and he mentions that, with proper fire management, you really don't need flux at all for forge welding mild steel or wrought iron. He talks about building your fire so that you have a deep neutral layer, which greatly reduces oxidation, etc. I don't use my coal forge much at all, and just use my induction forge. There's no oxidation layer there at all! I haven't forge welded in it yet, mostly because of the limitations of the shapes of the coils, but I've been considering a welded-foot trivet. All of which gets us around to my question: probably lots of flux is required in an induction forge, right? A short, moderate heat, a good scrub, a good fluxing, then back into the coils for a welding heat? Do I remember correctly that borax will eat away at the copper coils aggressively? Other pitfalls to work through? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 borax eats everything its funny how so many people have troubles forge welding but they also are the ones that insist on not using flux, which makes fire welding easier, ,its like getting driving advice from people that cant drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajajoaquin Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 Oh, I use flux on all my forge welds. I'm not so expert that I believe I can forgo any additional help. Just trying to give background and cite my source. I'll have to think of what kind of barrier I can use for forge welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I haven’t watched his specific vids, but from your general premise Rowan T. is correct. Flux is an aide, not a requirement. I've seen Peter Ross forge weld and talk about forge welding without flux on many occasions. Complicated welds. Pretty sure he can drive! If anyone out there doesn't know who Peter is, look him up. A lot of old school British smiths didn't bother with flux as well. I've stuck fluxless welds, sometimes even on purpose. In the architectural smithing world occasionally avoiding the clean up of the mess and finish ruining aspects of borax is required. Flux helps, sometimes a lot, but if I had an induction heater (currently saving my pennies for one) I'd mess around with putting the coil in a box that could be flooded with an inert welding gas or similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Boggs Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 8 hours ago, bajajoaquin said: I came across a video channel by Rowan Taylor lately, and he mentions that, with proper fire management, you really don't need flux at all for forge welding mild steel or wrought iron. I have no idea who Rowan Taylor is, but British smiths have been forge welding (Fire welding) without flux for, well since the beginning, to them, it's not a big deal. It was an Englishman I first worked for and learn welding from, and as such, all our welds where fluxless. This summer, I took a workshop with Adrian Legge LWCB,FWCB, Dip.WCF and he had us do all our welds sans flux. Here's the project we did. For myself, most of the time, I have students do their first welds without flux, so they understand that flux is, as Judson posted, an aide, not a requirement. Having said that, other then maintaining the skill, and as most of my work is production, I use flux for most of my welds. My current best is 150 weld in a row successfully, which was during a railing job some years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Not quite true up until the 1850's pretty much everyone was using real wrought iron that is self fluxing due to it's silicate content and also tolerates temps high enough to liquify the slag.. They have continued to not use flux; but it's been a bit harder since bessemer and other steels came along. So saying they have been excellent horse riders does not indicate their skills at driving cars. The summer I spent in Germany, I did a pattern welding demo for a german smith and of course had brought my own trial size box of borax and a billet (BSB&PS). He kept telling me i was welding at a too cold temperature and was amazed when my billet was flawless. He thought the borax must be magic and I asked what he was using for flux, Clean quartz sand which is not as active as borax and requires higher temps and so not as good for doing blade work. I left the box with him so he could try to locate some locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Boggs Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 And yet, there's the welded ball and twisted basket sans flux. And done with very poor coal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I would like to see the beginners that did that one, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 18 hours ago, Steve Sells said: borax eats everything The teenager of the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Boggs Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Three of the six students were novice blacksmiths. It took them longer and several tries, but at the end of the day, all were successful, Adrian is a very good teacher. I personally have taught over a 100 beginners to weld and always teach welding without flux first. I've had one and only one student not get the weld and that student tried once and quit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I've seen Billy Merritt forge weld at temps that I would consider cold for forging. It does not mean that I can weld at those temps without lots of practice and or coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3ssure Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Alec Steele was making damascus for a while before he ever used flux. He was grinding each piece and welding them together in stacked billets so that's a factor. Joey van Der Steeg on youtube demonstrates welding without flux and most of what he does he doesn't use it. I can barely weld with borax so far though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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