Is it better to use stock that is bigger than the hardie and draw it out for a fit, or is it better to use stock that fits the hardie and upset the working end? My Mousehole has a 3/4" hardie and my Swedish anvil has a 7/8". I thought to use 1" stock for both and draw it out. I believe Lorelei Sims recommends starting with slightly over sized stock and drawing it out so 1" would be slightly oversized for both of my anvils. I will most likely use the 3/4 " Mousehole for hardies though due to the Mousehole being my heavy anvil.

What is better is what works best for you!  Now if you want to ask us what works best for *you* the simple answer is to send all your tools to Thomas Powers and take up sand painting...

I will say that most new people find it easier to drawn down than to upset; but I've sledged on a dozer valve lifter being upset for a 400 pound anvil before as striker for a friend.

You can do it either way but drawing out is easier. 

if you had stock that is only slightly undersized, then may be upsetting is easier. 

Try both ways and then post some photos

Make friends with your auto mechanic (a car part-themed bottle opener is a great way to do this) and get from them some old torsion bars and axles. These will generally be in the 1-1/8” to 1-3/8” diameter range. Forge down the stem section to the proper size, take a good heat at the transition from the stem to the parent stock, drop the tool into the hardy hole, and upset the shoulder.  If you’ve forged that transition carefully, you should only need minimal upsetting to fit the shoulder. This is good, because excessive heavy hammering (such as one gets upsetting a bottom tool) does run the risk of breaking the heel off the anvil.

Generally speaking, drawing out (making thinner) is a lot easier than upsetting (making thicker).

Thanks and getting those parts should not be too hard, I have two clients who run repair shops for sports & exotics. Jaguar, Land Rover, Triumph, MG, Austin and Jenson, Morris etc. One of them works on Pantera and Lotus as well. Needless to say when we go to their shops there are many distractions. I have a couple stub axles right now, seems like they are about 1.5" though. I have 12 feet of round bar from the top of a window lentil that seems to have a bit of carbon in it from spark testing it. It is 1" or slightly bigger, going out there to measure it again today and spark test it again.

Greetings all,

           I have made tons of hardie tools. I personally like the ones I make that are subject to side thrust. I simply make a hoop that fits snuggly in the hardy hole than form up a simple wedge to hold them down . Try one you will love it. 

 

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

I like it, especially after I just spent over 2 hours and a lot of propane to forge one out of a piece of 1" round. I told myself "next one I am getting out the welder" What size material did you use for the "hoop"? Also, what is the one that has the twisted wire on it?

So I used some of my 1" round from a window lentil to make my first hardie tool, a rivet bottom tool. It took a long time and a lot of fuel but I learned a lot. For my next hardie I will break out the welder and try some other suggestions. I have not put the dimple in it yet, going to make it for my tong rivets which are not here yet. Some of you may notice the hardie tool is crooked, yes I discovered that the hardie hole on my old Mouse Hole anvil is slanted toward the back of the anvil. So any tools I make for it will likely fit only that anvil. Anyway it sits very flat, does not wobble and does not jam into the hole either. Here's a few pics

You don’t need something that wide and flat for a rivet header. Make that one into a swage, and use another section to make a header without flattening down the top, like this:

On 1/20/2018 at 10:09 AM, Jim Coke said:

I have made tons of hardie tools. I personally like the ones I make that are subject to side thrust. I simply make a hoop that fits snuggly in the hardy hole than form up a simple wedge to hold them down . Try one you will love it. 

I like this idea a lot! Tools would then be suitable for just about any sized hole. What do you use for wedging in place, wood or metal wedge? Could probably even use an elastic strap and hook....

@Jim Coke  for normal swages (round, square, rectangle)  I like them to be as wide as the anvil face thus allowing to work of the edge..   I like your setup with the lock down.. I will use it..  

You tig weld also?  Isn't it a great tool..  

Greetings Jackdawg, 

        I use a metal wedge to hold them in .   It works super for many many applications.  Try a few they are easy to make . Just a few more pictures that I have that shows the wedge. 

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

Greetings JLP, 

      Yep I TIG weld but have been known to use any welder I can get my hands on easy .  LOL   Some have a little Bird Sh—- here and there. 

Jim

On 1/22/2018 at 1:34 AM, JHCC said:

You don’t need something that wide and flat for a rivet header. Make that one into a swage, and use another section to make a header without flattening down the top, like this:

I thought about that but I am wondering how I am going to hold the tongs, the set tool and the hammer all at the same time. I might have to lay the tongs down on the anvil

Don't make rivets that way.. Go over to the JLP Services Inc page on youtube.. There is a video on bolt making.. Apply this to the rivets.. Or you can watch the tong making vid's and the technique is there as well..   

If you are making finished heads then yes you need a top swage to get the finished shape smooth and correct but for the most part it is not a needed tool..  And if making short shank rivets just use a heading tool which mounts in the vise or hardie hole or just use the method from the videos.. 

Modern rivet sets are used to cold set rivets... The old fashioned way of doing it with hot rivets works very well and again unless you need it to be a finished head or up to boiler specs with a certain head height or diameter just do it the easy way.. 

@Jim Coke I really like the idea of those wedged secured hardies, thee clamp last shown in particular

Greetings Mike. 

        Yep it looks odd but it works great for holding large items on the anvil .  I have lots of hold downs but this one is the go to for the big stuff ,  Just an adjustable pipe clamp modified for that purpose . The good part is the original clamp still works as a independent clamp. 

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

44 minutes ago, bigb said:

I thought about that but I am wondering how I am going to hold the tongs, the set tool and the hammer all at the same time. I might have to lay the tongs down on the anvil

The rivet set in my photo is sitting in the hardy hole and does not to be held separately. 

Here it is on its side:

40 minutes ago, JHCC said:

The rivet set in my photo is sitting in the hardy hole and does not to be held separately. 

Here it is on its side:

 

No I realize that, I was talking about the tool to form the head on top, the hammer and the tongs. 3 things to hold on to when working alone.

Just dome the rivet freehand. 

Picked these up at the scrap yard, the larger diameter ones just look like cut offs but the smaller ones with the divots were in with a pile of machinery parts and very large gears. Thinking of using for hardie tools.Found a nice, perfectly flat chunk of 1/2" plate as well to add to my work surface.

Test as some of those may only be mild steel!