Lorne Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 In the process of starting up my first forge, while doing this I have also started a blog. The blog will allow me to easily document the journey, share what I learn, what I screw up, and record easily important bits of knowledge so I don't forget them. The winters here are harsh and in the winter forging inside in a closed shop is about the only option. That led me down the road of being safe with a propane forge, especially in regards to CO2. I wrote an article on what i have learned so far and thought it might be useful for some of you. Of course if you see something I missed or screwed up, let me know and I can get it fixed. Happy holidays all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 you missed CO and you miss that this is a privately owned forum not your personal add space. your off site link has been removed. Even indoors you will need fresh make up air to run a forge. not in an enclosed space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorne Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 CO2 is being added (I think that is what you meant?). That blog is in no way for profit so I would hardly call it an ad, sorry if me posting that offended you. Would you take offense to me just copy pasting it here? I would think that makeup air would come by itself as you exhaust outside, it has no choice really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 If you want to kill yourself I wont stop you, I feel sorry for your family while you do it tho, Good bye I am finished with you. Maybe you will listen to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorne Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 Well, that was well thought out, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherViking Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 CO as in carbon monoxide. Maybe you should spend a little time reading before charging ahead in a dangerous manner and misinforming others as you go through your own inexperience. There are plenty of threads on the topic of gas forges and the inherent dangers here, and plenty of other sources of safety based information you should consult immediately via a quick Internet search using your preferred search engine before you do yourself harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorne Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 3 hours ago, JustAnotherViking said: CO as in carbon monoxide. Maybe you should spend a little time reading before charging ahead in a dangerous manner and misinforming others as you go through your own inexperience. I am not sure if you saw the link i posted before it was removed. CO aka Carbon Monoxide is very well covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Lorne said: Well, that was well thought out, thanks. In case you haven't noticed Steve is one of the moderators, whose function is to assure the TOS are followed. Did you do any reading in the Forges 101 thread? BTW, everything you cover in your "blog" has been covered here many, many times. Did you read this prior to posting your thread? "Be aware we do not exist so people can advertise other web sites." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Hammer Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Lorne there are a couple of good threads to read about CO (not CO2) and gas forges. Enclosed spaces without proper air coming in and CO being vented out is a huge no no. Some are happy with cross ventilation while others here have spec'd out systems that move the fresh air in at a calculated rate that the CO contaminated air is being moved out. There are proper calculations also for the amount of air used in the combustion process with the propane forge. This isn't something you experiment with. While we all love to forge and have dedicated much of our time and treasure to do it, it's simply not worth dying for. Worse yet, if your enclosed space is connected to your living space you could come in from a successful day of forging to find your loved ones dead. Don't risk your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorne Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 23 minutes ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said: In case you haven't noticed Steve is one of the moderators, whose function is to assure the TOS are followed. Did you read this prior to posting your thread? To advertise for me at least implies that there is something to be gained from posting whether it be traffic or some monetary gain. The blog which is my personal blog does neither. Maybe my take on advertising is inaccurate or does not match with iforgeiron. I am aware Steve is a moderator and of their function. I also know the mods and admins get tired of spammers, astroturfers, and shills. But usually it is also their responsibility to take the time to determine between the ladder(s) and a legitimate member. Steves responses were not only harsh but incorrect. I made a typo in my original post: Quote That led me down the road of being safe with a propane forge, especially in regards to CO2. CO2 should have been CO. Steves rsponse was: Quote you missed CO and you miss that this is a privatly owned forum not your personal add space. your off site link has been removed. Even indoors you will need fresh make up air to run a forge. not in an enclosed space He never opened the page he simply went by my typo. if he would have opened the page he would have saw for example: Which shows pretty clearly that CO was covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 If you look at a working chimney of a winters day, the amount of smoke going out the chimney is the same amount of air needed to go into the building. Just because you do not see the smoke and exhaust from a propane forge does not mean that little or no make up air is required. More make up air is actually required. This is not something to be taken lightly. By the time you feel the symptoms, you are already in deep trouble. And yes it migrates beyond the room you are working in. Your family, the dog, and etc may not be aware that they are being affected until it is too late. Another consideration is the weather. Good weather and things work the way they should. The same set up and a change in the weather, or heavy weather, and the whole system changes. You must be aware at all times what is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorne Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 23 minutes ago, MC Hammer said: Lorne there are a couple of good threads to read about CO (not CO2) and gas forges. Enclosed spaces without proper air coming in and CO being vented out is a huge no no. Don't risk your life. Thanks MC Hammer, i will lookup these threads and do some reading on it. 14 minutes ago, Glenn said: If you look at a working chimney of a winters day, the amount of smoke going out the chimney is the same amount of air needed to go into the building. The same set up and a change in the weather, or heavy weather, and the whole system changes. You must be aware at all times what is going on. Yes, this makes sense to me. I absolutely see how the air going out needs to be at least equally replenished, maybe even more so in some cases. But in less the shop is extremely well built and sealed that exhausted air will come in as fast as it goes out and you won't end up with negative pressure inside the shop. Or maybe my shops have just been drafty. I wrote that article to help people out as i did not find much in the way of information consolidated on a single spot regarding this. I will refine it as needed to be as accurate as possible with the help of the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, Lorne said: To advertise for me at least implies that there is something to be gained from posting whether it be traffic or some monetary gain. The blog which is my personal blog does neither. Maybe my take on advertising is inaccurate or does not match with iforgeiron. Advertising can be anything that benefits that person, which would include sending the viewer off site to another location. One difference would be to send the viewer to a informational resource such as a MSDS sheet, etc. Each case is judged on it's own merit. Many times we will contact the other site and request permission to use their information, and give them credit to the source. Some sites do not like hot links or referencing to their site. We try to respect their wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorne Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 I understand that and happy to see you uphold high standards both for incoming and outgoing resources. I benefit in no way from posting a link to that article, that becomes apparent pretty quick if you take a look at the blog. I know you guys deal with a constant stream of "annoyance" in regards to spammers etc trying to use your forums as a source of traffic,. Been there, done that, still do it on a daily basis. Seems like we got off on the wrong foot, hopefully that can change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 21 minutes ago, Lorne said: I absolutely see how the air going out needs to be at least equally replenished, How is your forge's dragon breath being exhausted? A drafty shop is not adequate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorne Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 Just now, Irondragon Forge & Clay said: How is your forge's dragon breath being exhausted? A drafty shop is not adequate. I was referring to "drafty" in regard to makeup air. A hood over the forge with an inline 10 inch fan exhausting direct to outside will force that same amount of air to be brought in through every crack and crevice in the "drafty" shop. It is extremely hard to have a negative pressure in the vast majority of shops, though i am sure there are some out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 15 minutes ago, Lorne said: I absolutely see how the air going out needs to be at least equally replenished, maybe even more so in some cases. You are considering the shop a closed tube, which it is not. There will always be eddies, and collection points for stale or bad air. The make up air is one thing, but you also need to flush the stale or bad air out of the area also. For instance, of you let smoke loose (solid fuel forges) upon starting the fire, someone walking into the room several minutes will complain about the smell of the smoke. The air looks clean but the nose tells the story. There is also the situation where fresh air is piped directly into the blower and directly into the forge (solid fuel forges). This is a plus in that you do not have to use heated room air to drive smoke and exhaust fumes up the chimney. Not so much of a plus when smoke gets out into the room and there is no air currents to move it out of the room. I use the example of solid fuel forges and coal smoke because we can actually SEE the smoke and see the left over smoke hanging in the air. Ever try to add wood to a wood stove and there is a puff of smoke that gets out and into the room? Ask the wife if she noticed (grin). Then take notice on how long that little puff of smoke remains in the house. Ask, she will tell you. Next winter you will heat with electric or gas if she is sensitive. We encourage informational articles. They contain the distilled version of many hours of research. We also try to help with the final presentation by review and correction or addition of the information so it is complete and accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorne Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 @Glenn I have given you the link to the article, I am happy to modify it based on feedback given. You would recommend that i change the section "Preventing Exposure" to include more active ventilation as a recommendation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 27 minutes ago, Lorne said: I understand that and happy to see you uphold high standards both for incoming and outgoing resources. I benefit in no way from posting a link to that article, that becomes apparent pretty quick if you take a look at the blog. Problem is that the off site articles and blogs can be changed, edited, or advertising added at the whim of the other site. On IForgeIron under the Gas Forges section, we have two threads Burners 101 with 863 replies 36,857 views in 18 months, and Forges 101 with 863 replies 36,857 views in 16 months. These are an ongoing discussion with GREAT information being exchanged. You can follow the discussion from day one up to the last post all in one place. We do suggest you pack a lunch and a cold drink before going into the thread. You may want to take a note book with you so you can take notes as you read . (do not ask how I know this. I am still looking for that one tid bit. Know it was in there somewhere.) On IForgeIron, any misinformation is corrected within the next post or two. New information can always be added, and new references provided. The discussion is always in flux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorne Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 I am a little confused. In your rules and guidelines you state: Quote For years the blacksmithing community has always been about sharing information. Posting a link to another site to provide an answer to a question has always been the standard practice. At this time, I see nothing wrong with posting a link to an photo, or to an article, as the photo or article is on that site, not on IForgeIron. But yet your reply above seems to say that you don't want this as the site is out of iforgeiron control. I offered to post the article here on the forums but the reply I received from Steve changed my mind pretty quick, why would I do that with that type of a staff response. I read though a few pages of those threads and I am sure they are full of great information. It would be great though if the first 3-4 posts by the author would be edited and used to compile all the good information from the thread. This way people do not need to read through 20-30 pages to pick out all of the good information. At this point it seems obvious that you guys don't want me sharing my information here, so I won't bother. I was excited when I started browsing through these forums, thought it would be a great place to share and gain knowledge, I was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Blogs usually tend to be short and quickly posted comments, covering many subjects. 23 hours ago, Lorne said: In the process of starting up my first forge, while doing this I have also started a blog. The blog will allow me to easily document the journey, share what I learn, what I screw up, and record easily important bits of knowledge so I don't forget them. This could be a good read but could also easily contain incorrect information or mistakes, while you try to figure things out in real time. How do you know your first forge build will even work, as the first of anything is a trial and error process, or alpha test if you will. Once you figure out what to do to make it better, it then becomes a beta test, or second forge. Articles are usually well thought out and well constructed information on a single subject. An article would take what is known to work and present it in a easy to read and easy to follow process. The article then becomes a reference, one of many that are collected as you research a subject. You then use ALL the research articles, taking the best parts of each article or project, to try to construct a better working model. Few people take the time to build a project and change only one part at a time to see if that one change makes an improvement. Then go back to the original and confirm the improvement by observing the downgrade in performance when the original is re-installed.. If there are 3, 4, 5, change choices, then the process is repeated 3, 4, 5, times. This is for just one component, and a project may have several components in the design. It could take a while to sort it all out. In the end, you have a model that works for you, in your set up, at your location. Now you have information for an article that others can use. 7 hours ago, Lorne said: I read though a few pages of those threads and I am sure they are full of great information. It would be great though if the first 3-4 posts by the author would be edited and used to compile all the good information from the thread. This way people do not need to read through 20-30 pages to pick out all of the good information. Great idea !! Remember to update the complied thread on a regular basis as new material is added daily. Now multiply that by the thousands of threads on the site. Steve Sells did that very thing based on one subject. TWO YEARS later he ask several people to review the compiled material which resulted in several new revisions. That compiled material can be located in his book Introduction to Knifemaking available through the IForgeIron store or by contacting Steve directly. Yes, he wrote the book. Many others that are members on IForgeIron have also written books and have real world experience to back up the information they post on the site. 7 hours ago, Lorne said: At this point it seems obvious that you guys don't want me sharing my information here, so I won't bother. I was excited when I started browsing through these forums, thought it would be a great place to share and gain knowledge, I was wrong. You may want to read my posts again. We want you and others to share information on the site. We want it to be good information, presented in a well thought out and understandable.manner so others can gain from reading the material. The posts can then be discussed, and new information added by other members to improve the original post. It is an ongoing process which, after a while, becomes a wealth of information related to the original post. This is repeated with each new thread posted to the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMike Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I didn't see your Blog Lorne so don't know if you are providing good info or not. I've seen several guys post things that the experts found exception to and were none to gentle about dealing with it. I think that if you'd gone to them before linking and publishing, it might have gone different. I too feel frustration with the site as it has probably more knowledge about blacksmithing and related topics than any other place I've found. It is also extremely hard to zero in on a specific topic as there is no practical search feature. Easy to search for something that you know must have been answered and not find it and be referred to a section containing thousands of posts to find it. That and glitches that remain such as having to refresh each page. But in balance the site is worth the effort and I find it extremely valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Other search engines can be used to locate information on IForgeIron. I used google and did a search for search carbon monoxide on iforgeiron.com Google came back with 2 pages of links to IForgeIron on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Okay guys I'm smelling another troll. Lorne has done nothing but bemoan the fact we aren't reading HIS article, blog, whatever and he's tried oh SOOOOO hard to explain how in the wrong WE are. So far I've withheld my response but you guys are engaging him which is what a troll lives for. We aren't here to proof his gallies, host his links nor admire ANOTHER rewrite of basic safety information and practices we push HARD every darned day. So far he's contributed nothing new to the site, only whined about us not promoting his. Don't feed the troll guys or I'll make you sit in a corner and write on a blackboard or something. Maybe draw some pics. Just ignore the trolls, they'll go away. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.