JHCC Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 A couple of years into this project of rebuilding my forge, I'm about ready to think seriously about doing some forge welded projects, maybe taking a shot at making some san mai blades. The thing is, most of what I read about solid-fuel forge welding is geared towards using coked bituminous (soft) coal rather than the anthracite/rice coal I've come to enjoy. I've done a couple of small welds, so I know I can get to welding heat, but I'm a bit apprehensive about trying something bigger in case there are pitfalls awaiting of which I am not yet aware. Does anyone here have experience forge welding with anthracite? Anything I should particularly watch out for? Any anthracite-specific tips and tricks for success that you'd recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laertius Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 The coal I use is pretty much powder when I get it, not sure exact specs, but suspect it is anthracite as it is what some power plants use up here. The only difference I find welding with this stuff vs. bituminous, is that it is more 'work' to keep the fire clean, and if you like a cave style fire. For the cave, I mix the powder with water and do the usual 2x4 chunk routine, but once it is solid --and I am welding, I toss handfuls of wood charcoal in the heart as it burns down - otherwise if I feed it more coal, it tends to get klinkery before a couple of heats and I end up ruining the cave by cleaning. That said, no issues with heat in your normal open fire assuming adequate air supply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W. Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 I used to use solely anthracite and failed at making Damascus quite a few times. Switched to charcoal, and success has increased tenfold. The biggest problem I encountered was feeding the fire enough air to keep welding heat going without creating an oxidizing environment. With charcoal, its easy, with anthracite I found that it's a very fine line you must walk. I also have a speculative theory that the sulphur content in anthracite inhibits welds. I have bits and pieces of personal data about this, but no hard evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51 Papy Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 JHCC NOT an expert! I use the nut and rice coal from TSC. The trick for any success I have is a real clean fire. I missed a weld yesterday evening because I didn't get all the clinker and ash out. Got up this morning got the blasted stuff lit and burning about 6" deep and welded no problem. For what I'm burning now, the first hour is great anything after that I have to tear the fire apart and get the rubbish out before I can weld. I like the rice better than the nut coal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Boggs Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 I've done a bit of welding with Rice and posted photos here of the results. (Like many, the photos have vanished) Treat it like fine coke and you'll be fine. Never turn the air down all the way as it takes a long time to come back up. And be careful about too much air, you can blow the fire apart. Add new fuel directly on top, there's no coking going on and therefor no need to put it to the side to "coke up" A deep fire works better and I find fire brick sides and back help in keeping a deep fire. If you've every visited James Austin's web site, the method he uses is what I talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 28 minutes ago, Gerald Boggs said: Add new fuel directly on top, there's no coking going on and therefor no need to put it to the side to "coke up" I've found that if I put it directly on top, it has a tendency to crack and spit. Putting it on the sides and pushing it in makes for less red-hot shrapnel, even if there's no need for it to coke. Thank you, @Laertius, @Will W., @51 Papy, and @Gerald Boggs; much appreciated. Good info, and I hope it will help others thinking about the same issue too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Some of the old blacksmithing manuals recommended charcoal for forge welding, it's generally cleaner and low sulfur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 and has been used for forge welding probably for 2000 years longer than using anthracite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 I find it interesting that they were also recommending charcoal for tool steels. They clamed the ash made exelent flux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Sulfur degrades steel which is why the Swedish charcoal iron was considered "top" grade and why you see the sulfur content listed for steels even when other unlisted elements may have a higher percentage---and why steel generally contain manganese as it's added to neutralize the effects of sulfur in the refining of steel. Wood ash/straw ash/etc does make a high temp flux; not as good for lower temps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Also, you need far more air for anthracite coal no matter it's use. O2 is very hard on tool steels. It also means you are constantly running on "high", like a gas forge. With come your air needs drop by a magnitude thus not hurting your steel and conserving fuel. But you can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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