Japanese sledge hammer video

[Sam Salvati]

These guys have a good rythm:).

YouTube - Sword making in seki

[rfb343]

and nice dresses too. LOL. but seriously I like those hammers, any one know more about them.
Mark

[Johannes]

I'm not sure, but I figure, that type of hammer is more convieniend when striking on an anvil placers that low to the ground, by shifting the point of gravity ouwards, and the contact face further from the central axile, it require's les bending one's back when hitting the typicaly grond placed japanese anvil (with the master smith seated, his hammer has a central, more usual placement).
But, this is just a theory... please correct me if you disagree.
kind regards! Johannes

[Valentin]

Come on ...u must be joking all in white ? i just don't whana be one of that blacksmit's wife. Even the socks are white and come on now ... Looks good on video but u must be kidding me!

[easilyconfused]

I'm no expert on Japanese blacksmithing, but I was under the assumption that they treat if more religiously that us and wearing white and such is part of the rituals they perform. Anyone who really know though?

[Sam Salvati]

It is most specifically when making swords that the process is treated as a religious act, I wanted to show they sledge hammer style and they're use not emphasize that they are making a sword, I guess I should've clarified. It also seems that it is part of a demonstration for the public as well hence the more ritualistic garb.

[Jmercier]

Yoshindo Yoshihara is a person to look up if you are interested in Japanese blades and their forging

edit: for those of you who speak german

YouTube - Forgiatura Nihonto

[Sam Salvati]

yeah I have seen most of the videos ON swordsmithing on youtube, Yoshindo's are always awesome.

[ThomasPowers]

look at picture #7 for another take on making japanese swords in *Japan*!
Bloomberg.com

[Sam Salvati]

Thanks Thomas cool pictures!

[Feukair]

Very cool video. Judging from the way the 3 hammer'ers have to stand all the way back up after each strike I don't think there is much care for how strenuous that labor is for the three apprentice "power hammers". Those sleges look heavy too, like 10lbs, i wouldnt want to swing one that way for long.

[philip in china]

Here they swing sledges (and axes) just like somebody breaking toffee. They hold both hands at the end of the handle. No concept of slidingthe handle through the hand on the down stroke. It seems to get the job done but the western style does it better. Then again the people round here tend just not to have the size or power for heavy work.

[Dan Crabtree]

I made a one handed hammer similar to that. It was not very useful for most jobs but I found a few uses for it. Ya im scared to even go near my shop in white yet work in white. I think ill stick to black jeans and a black shirt. cool video thou

[Hofi]

In 2004 I Was Invited By The Seki Knife Forging Association To Give A Demo Class To 54 Japanes Knife And Sword Smith For A Week.they Wanted To Learn More About Modern Forging And I Was Lucky To Be The One They Invited.
My Translator Was A Student Of Mine That Lived Ther 10 Years To Study The Craft And Art Of The Japanies Tredition Of Knife Forging ,and Spoke Fluent Japanies And To Day He Lives In Potland Oregon.
Heving Been There Lerning A Lot But Still Knowing ''nothing'' On The Tredition
And I Was Forging With Their Hammers Tools Mechnical Hammer And Study The Grinding And Polishing Techniques I Want To Say Something From My Heart And Hopefully Offending No One.
This Is A Very Very Old Tredition One Must Be More Humble And Learn Much More About Before Criticising Or Moking Or Being In Polite To A Fantastic Cultuer With Fantastic Achivment One Must Be More Hamble When He Stands Before 3000 Year Of Tredition.
This Is An International Site And Not Privet American One Think How The Japanies Feel When They Read Some Of The Reaction Here.
I Am Invited To Come Again To Seki Next Year And Stay For A Longer Time
To Study And Learn More Deeply The How And The Why Not Only Knife Forging Also Mokume Gane And Casting.
One Can Not Learn The Cultuer Of A Nation If He Do Not Understand The Spirit.
I Am An ''expert'' Of Doing Things Not Acc To The Tredition And Some Times Against The Tredition But I Love The Tredition I Admire The Tredition But It Is Not A Religone And I Do Not Worship It And Ask Lots Of Questions To Learn And Always Understand More.
Hofi

[jimbob]

Hofi said
"This Is A Very Very Old Tredition One Must Be More Humble And Learn Much More About Before Criticising Or Moking Or Being In Polite To A Fantastic Cultuer With Fantastic Achivment One Must Be More Hamble When He Stands Before 3000 Year Of Tredition."
That can't be said enough thanks

[Glenn]

IF there are those knowledgeable in the Japanese traditions of knife making please explain things to us. I realize that 3000 years of tradition can not be covered in a paragraph or even a page, but the journey starts with a small step.

[ThomasPowers]

Japanese smithing is an art and a part of their cultural tradition and they do beautiful work; however how do you think I feel as an american and descendent of a 3000 year old western culture of smithing when I hear japanese stuff extolled so heavily and even tools that were commonly used in the west in places like Sheffield England for centuries called "japanese"?

All iron using cultures hold valuable lessons we can learn from, from simple pastoral ones to cutting edge high tech ones. What's important is to not get so focused that one cannot see things outside a particular culture.

I like to point out that 5-6th century western swords have been found made from 13 seperate pieces of which 5 were pattern welded billets, (The Metallography of Early Ferrous Edge Tools and Edged Weapons, Tylecote and Gilmour) This has stunned many people who did not know the richness of western tradition.

I don't recall it being mentioned but traditionally japanese sword forging strikers would chant a prayer to keep them in time, a useful method for coordinating multiple people working in the same small area.

[nett]

Yoshindo Yoshihara is a coauthor of the definitive book in sword making: The Craft of the Japanese Sword by By Leon Kapp, Hiroko Kapp, Yoshindo Yoshihara. Below is a decent review of the book:

Well over a thousand years old, the tradition of swordmaking in Japan is one of the most highly regarded metal crafts in the world. When all sword manufacture was prohibited in Japan for seven years after World War II, the age-old techniques were in danger of being lost forever. Today, in the hands of a new generation of practitioners, the craft is making a startling comeback. Connoisseurs say that the swords being produced now are the equal of anything made in Japan in the past few hundred years. This book takes the reader into the workshops of four of Japan's leading sword craftsmen. Each craftsman has a different role in the manufacture of a blade. Yoshindo Yoshihara, the swordsmith, begins with raw steel made in a traditional charcoal-fueled smelter and refines it by folding and forging,gradually shaping it into a sword with a hardened edge. Okisato Fujishiro then sharpens and polishes the sword with fine stones to reveal the color and texture of the steel. Metalworker Hiroshi Miyajima makes the small copper-and-gold habaki collar that fits between the blade and the scabbard.Finally, Kazuyuki Takayama carves the hilt and the scabbard out of a single piece of wood. Black-and-white photographs show every stage of the manufacture, while important information on history, metallurgy, and modern-day appraisal is presented in an extensive introduction. The swords made in Japan today are not, of course, intended for actual use. But their design, the quality of their steel, and the techniques used to create them still derive from the sword's historical function as a lethal hand-held weapon. A sword must be razor sharp, light, well balanced, andstrong, but not so brittle it will break. In the perfect resolution of these qualities lie the beauty of the blade and the challenge of the craft. This book demonstrates how brilliantly Japan's sword craftsmen today have met this technological challenge. The impulse of the craft now is to preserve the utilitarian object and yet create an enduring art for the modern age. While many fine books on sword appreciation exist, these deal primarily with older blades or problems of appraisal. The Craft of the Japanese Sword is the first book in English devoted entirely to contemporary sword manufacture, and will thus be of enormous value to metal artists everywhere, as well as to collectors and students of weaponry.

........

I met him in the early eighties along with other artisans when a Japanese sword exhibit visited my town. I only learned of his book a month or so ago and ordered it through my library system. Good clear text, and excellent photography - I recommend it highly, and believe everyone who reads it will have a better understanding of what goes into these magnificent works of art.

[ThomasPowers]

Perhaps japanese swordmaking but it would not be very useful for making a renaissance rapier!

Japanese swords have an extremely limited use case and have been honed to perfection for it. They are not that good outside of that use case however as can be seen from noted experts making very small mistakes in cutting resulting in bent swords and/or cracked edges---look at the role of ashi! So if people with 40+ years of experience can damage one under near perfect conditions what would they be like in the hurly-burly of battle? Probably why bushido was the way of the horse and the bow. Swords were a secondary weapon more suitable for dueling one on one---much like the renaissance rapier for that matter.

[kalevra]

Hello,
I am the guy Uri Hofi has referred to as his translator/striker in Japan. I lived there for 12 years, and was apprenticed to a swordmaker, then a knifemaker, and then had my own shop. I currently live in Oregon.
So here is my take on this debate: I don't know what ThomasPowers means by " limited use case" . Japanese swords were, and in theory still are, built to slash, with stabbing being a secondary function, though still quite a valid one. All swords are liable to breakage and chipping, some more so. The ashi feature in Japanese blades minimizes the damage to the edge when chipping does occur. The argument that ashi are an indicator of some kind of poor design or manufacture is illogical -- after all, the folded and twisted design of Western swords (say, Viking ones) was not purely an esthetic consideration -- combining high and low carbon steel, and homogenizing the steel through elaborate forge-welding protocol serves a practical function, too. No one would say that these strengthening features are an indicators of a weak design, right? Rather the reverse is true. As to the sword being the secondary weapon, I have to strongly disagree. The Japanese valued single combat above all else, and for centuries battles were in essence viewed as multiple single combats, with individuals clashing with spear and sword. That, and the fact that any kind of urban combat in the densely populated urban centers called for a very heavy reliance on the sword makes the bow and the horse be seen in a somewhat different context. Another related fact is that at some point in Japanese history the horseback fighting has become less important, the foot soldiers became more prominent, and this was reflected by the re-design of the sword right after the first attempted Mongol invasion. So, no, the sword has been the prime tool until the introduction and wide-spread use of the musket.
I have an old Japanese sword. It has seen battle, as evidenced by the nicks on its softer back -- this is when the opponents blade was parried. The blade itself is perfect, neither bent nor chipped. I realize that this proves little as the previous owner might well have died without delivering a blow himself. Still, I have seen many such swords, blades 300 and 400 years old, obviously using tools with numerous nick on the back to show for it, and still in great shape.
In general, I admit a bias towards Japanese cutting tools. I fell in love with them when in Japan. I specialize in Japanese chef's knives, and every single person, from friends, their moms and uncles to professional chefs for whom I have made these blades, have become converts. Japanese cutting tools just work better. They are often made with superior materials, the design is truly ergonomic and practical ( and I mean REALLY ergonomic, and not some half-baked notion of comfort), the workmanship is uncompromising, the standards of excellence are extremely high, and all this sort of attitude had time to evolve over a very long time, somehow surviving the industrial revolution without getting lost in mass production. True, a good Japanese tool requires respect, care, skill and understanding (no cutting nails with a fine woodworking chisel, no chopping beef bones with a sushi knife). So what? We here are in the business of skilled, respectful, mindful use of tools, aren't we?
I do not claim that everything the Japanese make is better than what the West has to offer ( I, for one, much prefer my German anvils for ANY forgework). But they come pretty darn close in many areas -- they are highly skilled, sincere, very patient, mindful craftsmen, with lots of talent and an ability to adapt and adopt new ideas, and centuries of excellence behind them.

[Glenn]

Kalevra,
Thank you for your input.
Welcome to IForgeIron.

[HWooldridge]

Read Miyamoto Mushashi's "Book of Five Rings" and you will get a sense of the importance of the blade and what it represented as a Way of living to the Japanese warrior. He was primarily interested in winning the duel - no matter the method, a perspective with which I am personally in agreement.

It may be that a skilled European fencer could beat a mediocre Japanese fencer - or vice versa; and it may be that a good Norse sword might break an inferior Asian blade - but the speculation doesn't possess any validity as the various styles arose in different environments on different continents. Conversely, it doesn't make much sense to extol Japanese swords over European or Persian ones as no one style answers for all situations. It's sort of like arguing that the 1903 American 30-06 rifle and cartridge is "better" than the 1898 German 8mm Mauser - in either case, one must hit the target.

Simply put, Japanese blade and their methods of use are typically of high caliber - as are blades and styles from Damascus or Toledo or Paris.

The Japanese swordsmith cleanses himself and wears white as a symbol of purity. Each sword was considered to have a soul of its own and the smith was just one part of the process - the polishing and hilt mounting craftsmen being the others. There were probably some Europeans and Persians who felt the same way...

[Ice Czar]

combining high and low carbon steel, and homogenizing the steel through elaborate forge-welding protocol serves a practical function, too.

a process and tradition that makes a virtue out of a necessity

Tatara-buki

image copyright Hitachi Metals, Ltd.employed under the fair use doctrine for educational purposes

[ThomasPowers]

By limited use case I meant they were perfected for one on one fighting, no shield and in the case of dueling mainly no armour. They do not react well to forces normal to their axis and so the "hurley burley of massed battle" results in things like the addition of ashi to keep a sword in usable condition even when it has suffered damage. I feel that in battle a weapon should be more generalized in it's use.

I also own several japanese swords that are several hundred years old, (my Grandfather bringing them back from WWII and then I have added to them over the years as luck and my financial state allowed), and they are beautiful; however if I was on the field of battle in armour they would not be my first choice as an edged weapon (neither would a rapier for that matter).

BTW I own "the book of 5 rings in english translation and have read it and the author thought so much of his sword that in one of his most famous duels he used a wooden sword carved from an oar...which I thought indicated that he was trying to show that it was not the sword, it was the person---remember the gates of heaven and hell? (a zen story).

What I have noticed is that the people who study in depth know about the virtues and issues with such things and it is mainly the Hollywood educated that claim universal superiority.

As to why europe left off pattern welding about the year Y1K, it was that metallurigical technologies had advanced until the extra work was no longer needed. The question is---why did the japanese stay with it? The role of culture and religion in this was in my opinion very important.

[HWooldridge]

Thomas,

I agree with your comments - the Japanese (and certain other cultures) are/were often bound tightly by tradition and that became both blessing and curse. The blessing side of it is the laser-like focus they can bring to an analysis, which is one of the reasons they are good at making things today like automobiles in modern factories. The curse is becoming so ingrained by tradition that a fresh look out-of-the-box is often not possible. Look at some of the martial arts forms that have stayed engraved in stone for several hundred years (one of the things Bruce Lee criticized during his time). That was my reason for mentioning Musashi - he was an original thinker who figured out that a piece of wood would defeat most blades if wielded properly. He also "invented" the two-sword style, which would also have been unheard of at the time because none of the conventional schools apparently thought the same way.

IMHO, the Europeans seem to have moved along at a faster pace because of the frequent wars fought between different races and peoples. The Japanese primarily fought each other - so technology didn't advance like in the West.