John Martin Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I was wondering if leaf spring would be okay for a draw knife and if coil spring steel would be okay for the chisels. I want to make a set of woodworking chisels for my dad. Like 5 of them. Like 1/4" to 1" wide. Do I need to temper or do anything after I have forged and grinded them. Same thing with the drawknife. I don't know what to do after I have them forged. Any suggestions or tips would be very useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveh Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 you will have to harden and temper to what color im not sure.ive been thinking of making my brother some of the same and i also would like to know.thanks for any info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcraigl Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 John, I think those steel choices would work just fine for those tools. They're all "edged" tools, and if you want them to "hold" and edge you will definately want to heat treat. I won't go into it here, but there's a ton of posts on heat treating the steels you are talking about if you search the forum. Post pix of them when you're done. I've been thinking of making a set of mortising chisels ever since all my hand tools got stolen a couple of decades ago. They're getting hard to find store bought these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjohnbarleycorn Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I think you would want peacock color for those, leaning on the straw side, straw would be too hard and brittle. I think you could also on those just make it hard toward the cutting edge and let it be smoother on the back end. Grind to near sharp before hardening. There are a number of post on this though. hope that helps a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Yeah, either steel makes fine wood working tools. I like using spring steels for blades, especially as a student project. Both are very forgiving compared to say, O1 or W1 but both will take and hold an excellent edge. After forging bring the blades to critical, non-magnetic heat and bury them in wood ashes, perlite, preheated lime, etc. to anneal. This will releave the stresses forging caused in the blades. Once annealed they'll be easy to straighten and rough grind. I also recommend annealing or normalizing if you do very much grinding as that'll build stress as well and the more stress in a blade when you harden it the more likely it'll fail in the quench. To harden, bring to critical temp. / non-magnetic and quench in oil heated to around 100-110f. Plunge straight in and don't swirl. Immediately after hardening, shine them up and do a progressive temper, a torch works really well. For the chisels do a little preheat at the point where the tang meets the body of the blade. Then keeping the torch flame near this point gradually bring the temp up till the color starts to run. Beware, temper colors run quick and close in spring steels like 5160 leaf and 9260 coil. Idealy you want the tang and a large part of the body a dark blue and the bevel progressing to a dark straw or early peacock at the edge. Temper the draw knife in a similar manner by running the torch along the spine. I like to point the flame away from the edge for better control. You'll have a lot closer run of temper colors because the blade will only be an inch or so wide. This means you'll want to decide whether you want a springier and safer blade that's not going to hold an edge as well. Or a harder better edge holding blade that is more likely to break. As a beginner I recommend you draw the temper farther than a more experienced bladsmith for safety's sake. Any process involving heat as the main step is heat treating, whether you're annealing, normalizing, hardening or tempering, it's all heat treating. heating to forge is not heat treating as forging is the goal, not altering the metal's properties with heat. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted T Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Thank You for the information Frosty! Old Rusty Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucegodlesky Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 After hardening, you can also draw them back in yer wifes toaster oven :-) bruce/birdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 After hardening, you can also draw them back in yer wifes toaster oven :-) bruce/birdog Absolutely can. Get a good oven thermometer though, toaster ovens aren't very accurate and being so small the temp tends to go up and down quite a bit. Still tempering in the oven works just fine. The only drawback (pun intended) is it's not a progressive temper, the entire blade is the same hardness. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but especially for an impact tool it's not really good. You want the blade to be able to take some punishment so it needs some flexibility but if you make the whole blade like a spring it won't hold an edge well. A progressive temper lets the bulk of the blade be a tough, resilient spring able to flex under pressure and rebound shock after shock without damage or danger while the cutting edge is hard enough to take and hold a scary sharp edge. Of course a real bladesmith will jump in any second now and correct me on all the miriad mistakes I've made. I hope. To be up front, I am not a bladesmith nor do I play one on TV. I have made a number though and shown a few students the ropes. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucegodlesky Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Nah, you done agood job of explaining a progressive temper, Frosty. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveh Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 thanks guys for your info,i appreciate your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skunkriv Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Great thread. Well put Frosty. While heat treating is a real science and there are many variables, what has been said here is the basis of all you really need to know. Normalize to relieve stresses. When hardening and tempering err on the side of toughness. You don't want your work to break. You can always re-harden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Czar Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 very detailed explanation thanks Would there be a substantial difference if instead of a draw knife & wood chisel it was a graver and cold chiselstone chisel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryCarroll Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I've made a bunch of wood working hand chisels from different sizes of masonary nails--the ones that some folks call horse shoe nails. Using Frosty's heat treating process they will be quality tools. I turn hickory handles for them using spent large caliber brass shells for ferrules. For draw knives I've used trailer leaf springs and auto coil springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 very detailed explanation thanks Would there be a substantial difference if instead of a draw knife & wood chisel it was a graver and cold chiselstone chisel? For cold chisels I draw the temper just past peacock. I've never made a graver but you could probably leave it pretty hard if you're pushing it by hand and draw it like a chisel if you're striking it. What you're graving will make a difference too. You can leave it a lot harder for working silver than steel for instance. Wood, bone, ivory, stone, etc. might or might not require different hardness/tempers. I don't know about stone tools but, "The Complete Modern Blacksmith," by Alexander Weygers has detailed instructions for making stone chisels and other carving tools from salvaged as well as new steel. He also goes into making smithies from salvaged materials in 3rd. world countries. One of my favorite smithing and tool making books. He's a serious improviser. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Czar Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 thanx Frosty I have about 20 feet of coiled garage door spring (the big door variety), just plasma cut out about 50 coils today (2.5 feet or so) and Im applying my brain to mass produce the proper kite cross section for a dozen or so gravers, the rest get turned into clay modeling tools, center punches, scribes ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 My pleasure. I've been following your posts on wood gassification pretty closely. My plan is for a wood gassification furnace/boiler for the shop that'll double as a charcoal retort. (the furnace doubles as the retort, not the shop. I sincerely hope! ) Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 if you want to know more about making chisels, drawknife's rasps and al kind of tools i can strongly recomend the book "The Complete Modern Blacksmith by Alexander G. Weygers" the athor is besides beeing a blacksmid also a sculpturor, so there's allot of info on the subject of making wood working and sculpturing tools. I'm a bit of a sculpturor myself, so it was one of the first books on blacksmithing i bought. kind regards Johannes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 here it is on google:The Complete Modern Blacksmith - Zoeken naar boeken met Google Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjohnbarleycorn Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I've made a bunch of wood working hand chisels from different sizes of masonary nails--the ones that some folks call horse shoe nails. Using Frosty's heat treating process they will be quality tools. I turn hickory handles for them using spent large caliber brass shells for ferrules. For draw knives I've used trailer leaf springs and auto coil springs. great idea, any idea on what steel they are, I suppose the round ones will work also? thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makoz Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Hi there, I've used recycled springs for a lot of woodworking tools, both leaf and coil. Mostly it hardens and tempers OK. I agree about the Alex Weygers book, its a treasure chest of knowledge for making your own tools. Here are some photos of stuff I've forged: the first is a few chisels, not a set as such, they've been made over several years (the big one was from a Chevie leaf spring, the others from various coil springs); the next is stages in a small drawknife, made from an oxy-ed leaf spring, with a threaded bar instead of the usual tapered tang for handles; the last is of one of my drawknives in action on the shaving horse. Good luck m_brothers, there's some helpful advice here. Please post your tools when you get done. Regards, Makoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Some of the wood carving tools and drawknives that I forge HOFI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Some Thing Went Wrong Try Again Some Wood Carving Tools And Drawknives I Forge Hofi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petersenj20 Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Hofi- How do you make the finished bevel on the drawknifes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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