Creating A Propane Torch (Prototyping Project)

[René A]

Hi there,

I have just made My first propane torch for a future gas forge project and i was wondering if anyone had a suggestion on how i could improve it. I have already improved it some but maybe there is something i have missed.

I am looking forward to any suggestions

[JHCC]

That's not galvanized pipe, is it?

[Mikey98118]

This is your version of a "T" burner. It would be easy to deride it, but I'm not going to do that for two reasons: In the first place, you definitely have potential as a designer; Secondly, you seem to be UK based, and they need more people who are building from UK parts to speak up for them.There are other members on IFI, from England. I hope you and they will interact, to help your fellows with better specific instructions, including local parts lists, which us Yanks don't cover at all well.

As to the burner, you picked about the worst design possible, to change around. Most burners generally benefit from increased speed of the gas/air mixture; they are very unlikely to run too fast. Frosty's "T" burners, are easy to build and are a pretty hot burner, BUT, they are quite sensitive to mixture speed; you don't want it to slow, or too fast; in other words, balance is critical in that design. So, changing the parts around will get you into trouble double fast with them. If you can't produce the burner exactly as per his instructions, be prepared for many months of trying and failing while you come up to speed about how this burner works. Or, you can play around with linear burners (ex, Riel burners) that are fitted out with MIG tips with gas tubes mounted in bent saddles, with step flame nozzles, to make the flame you are looking for. Part of your problem is that you are looking to build a burner that can be used as a hand torch; they are more trouble than equipment mounted burners.

[Mikey98118]

Also, I believe the "T" was designed for work in heating equipment, where a slower hot flame increased fuel efficiency; Most hand or bench mount torches, are built to produced fast flames, which produce more heat in a shorter time period, in order to heat the given work as fast as possible, so as to overcome dissipation of the energy into its surroundings. There are only a few tasks that benefit from soft flames, and in their cases, added oxygen is key. A bench mounted air-fuel torch for glassblowers is an excellent use for a "T" burner. Any other heating out in the open air calls for the fastest flame possible.

[Frosty]

Thank you Mike your example of restraint has prevented me from going off on this build.

Rene' T burners are a pretty mature home built burner there is ZERO need for prototyping, none. You've made something that is simple and easy to build into a grand exercise in unnecessary work that doesn't improve anything. Using galvanized pipe for the hot end is a dangerous practice, burning zinc fumes are toxic, especially if you're sensitive to it. You can remove the zinc in a vinegar bath, that's an easy correction. Better to buy ungalvanized if it's available though.

I don't know about the availability of parts where you are but drilling and filing the T to use a pipe plug is really a LOT of work for a poor results. Do it right and you won't need to WRAP WIRE AROUND IT?!!  to hold it together. That is REALLY hard for me to not just jump all over. The pipe plug is just BAD.

Why didn't you drill and tap the T for a bushing reducer and sub to the mig tip? How about drilling and tapping the T for 1/8" pipe and using a 1/8" scd. 80 close pipe nipple, it's ID is almost perfect to tap for mig contact tips and you can plumb the other end directly to the valve and gas supply? OR use a pipe cross and use off the shelf plumbing fittings to sub to your mig tip and gas supply? The number of better alternatives to your build are almost uncountable.

Also, mixing tube length to ID is a long established ratio used by commercial makers for centuries. There is no need to experiment, except home builds aren't as precise as commercial versions so we need to adjust components and ratios SLIGHTLY to get proper flame combustion and types.

How was that for restraint guys, did I do okay? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

You did good, Frosty.

[Michael Cochran]

I cannot comment on the build but I can comment on the video. I couldn't watch it to the end because the fast forward bothers my eyes and not seeing half of what's being done means there's no point watching.

[René A]

Hi again

 

First off, i thank you all for the suggestions i will be taking them into consideration.

I have of this moment, changed the the converter flame nozzle to one that's not galvanized and will be mentioning it in the description of the video.

Secondly the the reason i made the connection with a pipe plug was because i wanted to be able to take it apart and use the gas nozzle in other projects and make it so that the welding tip can easily be changed if a better solution were possible or if there were any kind of heat damage under the testing.

Thirdly i already knew that the T burner was not the hottest burner out there. The reason i chose this, is because of its fuel efficiency. That's why i plan to make the gas forge highly modular so i can isolate the burn and hopefully get the best burn for the least amount of cash.  

Last but not least, i would like to thank you all again for making me rethink my design. Mainly the fuel mixture. I can already regulate the gas pressure but this post have made me want to make a regulator of the airflow, maybe even force more air in using a fan.

[Mikey98118]

There is a thread on this forum called Burners 101; if you want to play around with burner design, reading it will at least open your eyes to how to go about it, while avoiding the obvious pitfalls, such as "...maybe even forcing more air in using a fan" on a "T" burner. I have said once that you have potential as an equipment designer, but that will come to nothing unless you combine it with information on the subject at hand. I wish you all the luck in the world, but "fate favors the prepared mind." 

[Frosty]

There are illustrated directions for building a T burner on the forum. Had you bothered to read them you'd know removing the fitting and mig contact tip is easy, FAR easier than your "design". Like Mike says you have the talent but without the knowledge already available all you're doing is reinventing the wheel. Worse there are people out there who THINK you know what you're doing! Talking about trying to rig a blower to a T means you don't know how they work, getting a jet ejector to induce air in excess is so easy it took more time to get it to ONLY draw enough for a slightly reducing flame. What you're really doing with this level how to is showing the ignorant BAD ways to play with DANGEROUS devices.

I don't want to discourage you from experimenting but I'd sure like to see you STOP putting crap videos on YouTube until you know what you're doing. Just getting something to "work" doesn't make it a good device or tool. Your video production is good if you'd stop using the gimicky BS. Speeding up filing is nothing but a filler and says you don't really have anything of value to show folk. Outside of a few seconds to show folk the process in use, high speed is cutsey with NO purpose.

I'm asking you to PLEASE stop putting up dangerously bad information. You're not only hurting the craft but you are endangering folk who don't deserve it. If you'd like we can take this to PM. I'll be more than happy to help you make the things with what you have available in a safe and efficient manner. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[René A]

I'll be sure to give the Burners 101 thread a thorough read through. The basic info i learned before going on with this project, i got from a book from the local library. And for me it was enough to get me started.     

Frosty i would like to emphasize that this is in no way a ‘how to’ video but rather a documentation of my progress from nothing to something that works. That’s why i called it a prototyping project. Where i create a basic concept of a working burner. That's also why i ask for suggestion at the end of the video. So that i can improve on the concept.

I have also mentioned in the deception, that going on with a project like this can be dangerous if you don't have experience with it. In order to make sure people don't hurt themselves.

[Mikey98118]

I look forward to interacting with you on Burners 101; a place where you can call the authors to account for themselves. Now there's something a would have dearly loved in my school days "These young whipper-snappers, just don't know how good they got it!  In my day we had to walk five miles in the snow to go to school..." etc, etc.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Yea, and it was up hill both ways.

[Mikey98118]

Dang; upstaged again

[Frosty]

And glad for the opportunity.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

Well, that is true...

[ThomasPowers]

if the alternative was mucking out the barn all day or following the south end of a northbound mule pulling a plow for days (look up the medieval definition of an acre); going to school sounds delightful!

[Mikey98118]

See, this is another perfect example of unfair practices; us ex suburbanites, just can't compete with real country boys... I mean, how's a fella  going to think up a witty retort to "...up hill both ways" when his ass has falling off from laughing? It's dang hard being quick with your ass rolling around on the floor... 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

How about in the warm weather, you can add ticks and chiggers to the mix.

[Frosty]

No chiggers where I grew up and what ticks there were were itsy bitsy mummies by mid March. Do: black widows, scorpions, red ants and rattle snakes count? 

Want to talk about a hardships walking to school do ya? We still had to go to school when it was OVERCAST!  Think growing up in the burbs was easy? HAH!

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Mikey98118]

Black widow spiders... I could have gone another forty-five years without having to remember those sneaky b*st*rds!