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Add on for swage block stand


ede

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I will be building a swage block stand soon for an almost 200 lb block and while perusing different builds I came across this video.   This question is more directed at the folks who use these in blacksmithing and not as a museum piece in their shop.   Does this idea have practical value to it?   What are the downsides to it?  Is it silly or unnecessary?  

And yes I can lift my block while I'm not always very fond of doing so.   

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N5jMIdffdoQ

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Pretty slick, but that permanent mast would be in my way.

However, it you made the jib crane on a horizontal/vertical tube base, it could fit into a "Frosty Gazinta(R)" or a bumper hitch tube, and be useful on the truck or anywhere in the shop. 

Hmm, need another bucket of roundtuits.

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Frosty is one of our senior members. His workshop concrete was poured around a system of square tubes set flush in the floor to anchor down various machines that needed secure parking when in use. Receiver hitch tube mounted under and on things gives you temporary mounting points for grinders, vises, all sorts of things.

A search for 'gazinta' will give you lots of reading.

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Greetings Frosty,

        Years ago my old friend was teaching his daughters his form of math.. Instead of using the term division he called it gozinta.    ( 5 GOZINTA 25 5 TIMES )  Much more fun than the new math. LOL

 

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
On 6/6/2017 at 5:53 PM, jlpservicesinc said:

 I like the design of the stand overall but it really needs to be more beefy for serious work.. 

I happen to be making a stand right now out of 1/4" angle iron for about a 200# block.  Jlpserviceinc, I'm curious what you would consider a more beefy design.  Most of the stands I've seen built seem to be made out of angle iron.  

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  Curious to your design? Supports each corner? Is there a drop slot so the swedge block offers roughly the same height work surface wise, when flat or one edge? 

1/4"X? There is a lot of difference strength and rigidity between 1/4"X1" and a 1/4" X 4".

 

.   I'll take a picture of one of the larger block stands.. 

I will try to use as heavy as material as possible and also make the stand off sided.. In other words since the block is not square I will add the legs to the areas with the block standing on edges vs flat..  When flat the pressure will be across a great area(more even on the legs) vs when on edge so the pressure from hits will be transferred when used to the legs where it should be.. 

I;ve been thinking about it a lot and i might even have the material on hand.. I might use 1/4"X 2" sq tubing though angle iron would be good also.. I only have 1/4X4" angle and it's wider than the block.. 

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On 5/19/2017 at 6:29 AM, Jim Coke said:

Years ago my old friend was teaching his daughters his form of math.. Instead of using the term division he called it gozinta.    ( 5 GOZINTA 25 5 TIMES )  Much more fun than the new math. LOL

Shades of Jethro Bodine. :) 

One of the current terminologies for division is . . . Irksome. for instance you see and hear adds for something that costs. 2 times less. One of these days I think I'll make a store advertising that honor the add! Once word gets out I bet that bit of idiocy stops. I think I'll pick a 4x less offer if I like whatever it is. Marked "usual" price is say $10.00 and the advertised price is 4x less! Let's see, 4x $10.00= $40.00, $10.00 - $40.00 = -$30.00. The store would owe ME $30.00 for "purchasing" said product.

They MUST honor advertised prices, it's the law. Heck, I stopped into an auto supply to pick up some motor oil for a truck on a road trip and noticed Gerber multi tool, like the Leatherman, on the counter with a $10.00 each tag literally leaning against the register. Unfortunately there was only one left but I added it to my purchase. The guy scanned the code and started to add the $37.00+
 to my bill and I said NO ad held up the sale tag. He said oh that's just a mistake this is the real price. . .  The manager corrected his mistake and I got the $10.00 multi tool. It's a bummer there was only one though or I would've had Christmas gifts galore. 

You really have to know your: timzez, gozintas, andses and takaways or you won't even know you missed a deal. 

Frosty The Lucky. 

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This stand uses angle iron that was either cut or bought with one leg longer than the other..  This stand came with the block..  I don't like the stand.. 2 big reasons.. 

1. is the block fits pretty tight so you have to use a bar or something to pry it up/out..  2. if you are not careful the block can fall down through the space and be stuck in the middle of the stand.. The block weighs about 280lbs and last time it fell into the stand I pinched my thumb between the block and stand.. It's been 6months and my thumb is still injured from it.. 

I will eventually put a hoist on the stand and fix the stuff I don't like about it..  I also have 1 more stand to make for an older block I have.. 

20170709_161031.jpg

20170709_161203.jpg

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On 7/9/2017 at 1:59 PM, jlpservicesinc said:

  Curious to your design? Supports each corner? Is there a drop slot so the swedge block offers roughly the same height work surface wise, when flat or one edge? 

1/4"X? There is a lot of difference strength and rigidity between 1/4"X1" and a 1/4" X 4".

I chose 1 1/2" by 1 1/2" x 1/4" since that is what will fit my swage block without interfering with any of the holes during drifting.  I allowed a little gap between the swage and angle for ease of removal.   I will probably be adding some thumbscrews to lock the swage in place from the side.   

I was thinking of having the swage drop in about half way for ease of removal when on edge in the drop slot.  

Its just tacked together at the moment.   The legs are 2x2"x 1/4" and the feet will be 1/2".   I set the target height for 30" which is the height for my striking anvil.  Lots of reinforcing needs to be added still. 

IMG_0489.JPG

I also coped the corners for more welding reinforcement.   

IMG_0511.JPG

IMG_0512.JPG

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On 7/9/2017 at 9:08 PM, jlpservicesinc said:

I pinched my thumb between the block and stand.. It's been 6months and my thumb is still injured from it.. 

 

Ouch!!

i did that when taking apart a 130# post vise as the spring was out and slapped the xxxx of my thumb.   Fortunately the worst it got was a fat blood blister.

Here's hoping your thumb heals up.  

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On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 8:06 PM, ede said:

I will be building a swage block stand soon for an almost 200 lb block and while perusing different builds I came across this video.   This question is more directed at the folks who use these in blacksmithing and not as a museum piece in their shop.   Does this idea have practical value to it?   What are the downsides to it?  Is it silly or unnecessary?  

And yes I can lift my block while I'm not always very fond of doing so.   

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N5jMIdffdoQ

I will be installing something like this lifting device..  For me being the only person in the shop and aging it's the only reasonable way to deal with such a large awkward item..  It sitting 1.5ft into a slot and lifting that height plus.. Doesn't do it for me anymore.. 

 

I'm fortunate enough bad injuries up to a certain point don't hurt much either because I get hurt so often I've gotten used to it.. Or I have more problems then I know of on the surface.. :)

.. A paper cut on the other hand has me in tears..  The Thumb still feels really strange as there was a little nerve damage but overall it's back to it's old grouchy self..  It's like there is a callus on part of my thumb..  Injuries like these take a year or more to heel up completely.. 

 

The stand is looking good.. I'm guessing you will add in the drop later once it's been reinforced?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am about 3/4 of the way done building my swage block stand and did something similar to this. My jib crane is made from a round tube that slides into another tube welded to the side of the stand so I can turn the block I want to be able to get the block from the ground up to the stand and also life the block to drop it into the slot in the stand to use the sides of it. I didn't even consider a fixed crane as it just seems like it would be in the way most of the time. I'll post pictures when it's done.

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5 minutes ago, ede said:

I look forward to seeing yours DanL.  Interesting choice on the round tube.   I wonder if a thrust bearing would help with the pivoting if you placed one underneath your tube.  

I wanted to be able to pivot the block, so I figured I would give it a try, if it doesn't work out well I'll just weld it in place. Also, hoping a thrust bearing won't be necessary, since most of the time I don't expect to do anything other than lifting straight up, time will tell, and that's and easy addition since I left a bit of space on the bottom end of the support tube and plan to extend the plate I am using as the foot out under the tube. 

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5 minutes ago, ede said:

This is where mine is at.  I have the winch, just need to fab the rest:  

 

 

 

 

Looks a lot like mine. I went with square tubing for the legs rather than angle so the top angle frame sits on the end up the tube. I figured it would be more secure than just relying on the weld to hold up against sledging on the block. I like a gusset plates for stability, and wasn't sure if they would be required. Did you find they added some stability or just being cautious?

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JLP suggested them, I figured why not, can't hurt might help.  I think it has made it more rigid. 

I was considering tubing but decided on 1/4 angle since I could weld it in different planes, on the top, sides, and underneath.  I'm sure tubing would have been fine too.   You can fill the legs at least that way.   

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Just now, ede said:

JLP suggested them, I figured why not, can't hurt might help.  I think it has made it more rigid. 

I was considering tubing but decided on 1/4 angle since I could weld it in different planes, on the top, sides, and underneath.  I'm sure tubing would have been fine too.   You can fill the legs at least that way.   

I can see the gussets adding strength and preventing sagging on the top angle frame. I'll probably add them as well then, I would rather not have it collapse or bend under use.

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From someone who does not use swage block and does not even own one.

If I really needed to use one ... it is clear that using the block on its edge on the same stand designed to use it on the side is not a good idea. Unstable and way too high.

i would make a stand with a slot in the center to fit the block down the slot and so having the working surface at table height. A shaft through the center and two removable supports at each corner means you can turn the block around without any lifting by removing the corner supports and replacing them. if you want to use the face you can build a contraption to lift it out of the slot and lay it on the stand or ... have a second block permanently on the side. 

PS

You could have one permanently on top, flat, and another on the side of the same table mounted on a shaft that allows you to turn it ... :) 

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