Edge repair (shiver)

[Desmond Redmon]

OK, I have been reading for a week or so (in my few mins of free time), and I see a huge majority of people saying don't grind, weld etc to repair edges.  My edges are leaving marks that are more unsightly and problematic, and I have a variation of the questions I've seen asked frequently...  I don't want to grind or weld to make a perfect edge, what I am trying to decide is how to blend the sharp points back so they don't gouge my work leaving "ugly" marks.  I'm thinking of using a high hardness round file to remove the sharp points inside of the chip marks and using them for different sized radius grooves for fullering and shaping.  Other than the very slight metal removal, are there any other dangers to the anvil in feathering off the sharp edges of the chips? Yes I know it's more or less an OCD question, but as a machinist I hate seeing sharp edges which concentrate stresses ...

[Daswulf]

In all reality it's your anvil, make it suit your work that you do. I don't see any problem with taking down the sharp edges. I had a rough area at the edge of the sweet spot and ground it to a radius. It has been more helpful to me there since I have other types of edge to work on around the anvil.  

 

[Smoggy]

You've likely come across reference to sharp edges on anvils as you have been perusing the subject here, A pew pictures would help folks provide specific answers and maybe some options too. In the abscence of any pictoral reference I'd say it certainly shouldn't be a problem reprofiling at least some edge chips, the odd 'special feature' can be a bonus without detriment to the anvil.

[Frosty]

Yes please post some pics. Typically though we advise against grinding for those who want to "restore or repair" an anvil to sharp flat square. If the edges are effecting your work then something might need done.

You can make a bottom tool with a number of edge radii if you don't want to work on the anvil itself.

We'll be able to give more informed opinions once we see what you have to work with.

We tend to get a little carried away with some of the kids who ask advice then insist on potentially screwing up a perfectly fine anvil because it's not "perfect." It's a bad habit I'm developing, a person's property is their own. Anyway, please don't expect a strong reaction or that grinding on an anvil is always a bad thing. I've dressed the edges on mine with a disk grinder.

Frosty The Lucky.

[turbo7]

Take a buffer wheel on a grinder to the edges of the chips. 

[Desmond Redmon]

As I discussed with Glenn tonight, this was a bit of a leading question... I was actually trying to use the few chips in the edge of my anvil to help fuller on a three dimensional shape rather than a my anvil is chipped away to nothing how do I put a 90 degree angle on it...  I was exploring hammer only scrolling, and found I was picking up impressions from the chip I was trying to use to help me keep the radius of the rod while scrolling.  I am still exploring the use of each tool an operation and the produced part was just a fire poker to use on the forge (I wanted one that the handle hung down when dropped against the wall of the forge body).  Yet all of the advice I see is DO NOT EVER DO x.  I was trying to all you folks into elaborating a bit more on when you do what to repair a chip, or use a chip to your advantage.  

My bad for the somewhat deliberately misleading question, but he what without the why is extremely frustrating to read page after page...   Never leading me (or any other newbie( to a greater understanding.

So my bad, and thank each of you for the input. 

[Daswulf]

Thought I kind of explained the why in my response. Sometimes I understand myself better then others understand what is going on in my mind lol. I'll try to get pictures tomorrow evening of the radius on my anvil if it helps explain.

 

[Frosty]

No need to apologize it's a valid question and we tend to have a knee jerk "NO" reaction to people wanting to take grinders to anvils. Probably our best advice is, "Use it a year or so then decide what you need from it."

You didn't read like a teenager wanting the perfect anvil and I like to think we responded in kind. I believe I said if the chips are effecting the work then you may want or need to dress the edges. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

If the chipped edges are effecting your work clean them up. I would and have. However there are ways to turn scrolls without worrying about nice clean edges. Just don't drive the stock into the edge. Bend it over the edge, strike with the hammer's face OFF the anvil and slowly feed the stock out till you have about 1/4 turn. A "Turn" is a 360 bend in the stock. If you hunt mountain sheep it's a "curl." We try to keep terminology standardized so everybody knows what we're talking about. By the way, a ram's horn is a close to perfect scroll on the "Golden Mean" ratio.

Flip the stock turn UP and strike down on the end and inwards on the curve. With a little practice you can turn tight or open scrolls of however many turns you like on the face. You don't really need the horn or edges.

Scrolling on the face. Place the steel on the face of the anvil aimed downwards at a steep angle. Using a small face or the edge of the face, cross or ball pein (Ball pein if you're a reasonably good shot) and strike above the contact point with the anvil. The steel will bend, lay it down a little and strike higher up. Repeat till you have about 1/4 turn and see above method.

The main thing to remember is. Unsupported the steel will BEND under the hammer NOT FORGE. By forging we refer to a change in cross section and thickness which is translated into more length, width or both. "Upsetting" or "Jumping up" is making the steel thicker by shortening it and is a forging process.

Yes?

So, to scroll, turn rings, sink a bowl, etc. You strike where the steel is OFF the anvil thus bending it. Bending a piece of rod progressively is turning a scroll.

Even though I rarely turn a scroll over an edge let alone the horn, nicely radiused edges makes for clean shoulders without cold shuts. Every anvil should have at least ONE nice clean radiused edge. That said we still get jumpy when newcomers start talking about grinding on their anvils.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Kevin Olson]

Wow. Your anvil is is better shape then i thought. So its only gonna take some small modifications to make it work for you. Heres a before and after of mine. I used it for 2 years before cleaning it up. I did put a couple small welds in the deeper chips. It works good for me now. 

[ThomasPowers]

I use differing parts of the edge for differing tasks, I've one anvil where the front off 2" of the edge is perfect for refining chile stem transitions---I don't need the rest of the edges to match as they are good for other tasks.

So your anvil modify to suit your work and working methods!  Some folks do a ascending set of radii putting the finer ones as they get away from the sweet spot for instance.

[Mark Ling]

19 hours ago, Frosty said:

You didn't read like a teenager wanting the perfect anvil and I like to think we responded in kind. I believe I said if the chips are effecting the work then you may want or need to dress the edges. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

Hey! remember whos ears are listening!

I'm joking, I know what you mean...I deal with it every day first hand...

                                                                                                                                   Littleblacksmith

[Desmond Redmon]

Thank you all for the info, and I do understand the advice to wait a year before making major changes.   My I took round stone to the chips I was having trouble with and kind of refined the jagged points out to smooth enough to work with.  My small tweek was as I said more of an OCD thing since I had a perfectly usable notch if I smoothed out the sharp edge...  Figure if I can manage to grind away much material with a 200 grit stone I would end up a world champion arm wrestler, alas I ran out of sharp edge before I developed a 30" bicep