Halphwit Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Just bought an anvil and can't find a whole lot about it online. The only identifying marks are "USA" and "IAF". Some say it's just an ASO but i don't know and no one seems sure. The USA mark is protruding out of the rear foot and the IAF is stamped in the front. Check the pics, it's in great shape, has decent rebound, rings ok-ish, and is much better than the welded together scrap i used to use. And just for shiggles, what's the most you'd pay for it?(pretty sure I over paid) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 So decent rebound = 90% or 50%???? I have friends for whom "small work" uses stock that's a foot in diameter and others who use sewing pins for small work. It's a cast anvil so there are 3 possibilities: Cast steel, cast iron with a steel face and cast iron. If it's the first one and the rebound is 70% or greater you lucked out and it's worth 40 to 50 pesos a pound, (you are in Mexico like I am right? Prices vary depending on which country you are in of the over 100 that participate here, shoot they can vary 50% just in the USA and that's only a single country!) If it's the second one the thickness and hardness of the steel face is the controlling factors and remember the "fake" thickness of the casting is not the true thickness. If it's the last then it's worth about 10 pesos a pound as an ASO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halphwit Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 I'm in the US, the Houston area. So not far at all from Mexico at all. Some would argue we live in North Mexico lol. I think it's solid cast because I can't find any evidence of a face plate but that's not a definite. I was beating on it fairly hard last night with a medium hardened hammer and didn't dent it that I could tell so fingers are crossed for steel. The edges however aren't dressed yet and my son took a ball peen to it and left a small dent in the sharp edge. I would think hardened steel would chip off but I'd rather not test it and put a giant chip in it. I'm going to dress the edges this weekend sometime so I'm hoping to get a glimpse of what material it is, assuming there is a big enough difference between cast iron/steel in a spark test. I'll also try to make a little rebound jig to test that out as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 What you need is a 1/2" ball bearing and a ruler...no jig needed. What is the sound? A cast steel anvil with have a loud TING when tapped, a cast iron anvil will sound like thwap. (cast iron with a steel face is also a thwap which is a feature! (Fisher anvils are great anvils and you don't go deaf using them!) You don't want your steel face to chip so in a cast steel anvil they are tempered back from full hard with the amount of tempering based on size and brand...(actually all steel faced anvils are tempered, not just cast ones...) Spark test should work great as steel has a very different spark than cast iron---can you get a sample to test on to compare it with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halphwit Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Alright I found a approx 1/4" ball bearing in a paint marker and a marble in a paint can. I tested them both here at work on some mild steel just to see if they were similar in rebound and they're not even close. The marble gets somewhere in the 80% range on mild steel so I doubt that will give an accurate test results. I'm afraid that the tiny ball bearing I have will bee too small and light to be accurate but we'll see when I get home. I work at a refinery, anything I could look for in the trash that might contain a ball bearing that size? Or even around the house? I could order some on Amazon but I'm impatient and cheap so... lol I also swear I had a ball from a rock crusher I might be able to find when I get home. Wonder how that'd perform... As far as the ring... It definitely has more of a TINK with a fading ring resonating from the horn which, when struck has loud ring so that might be 2 points for possibly cast steel(fingers still crossed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The problem with the smaller ball bearing is the surface patina of the anvil starts throwing the results off. The evenness of the finish and hardness of the ball bearing helps. If you want to see a jig for it look up scleroscope a type of hardness tester that used rebound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Just clean any loose rust/gunk off the surface and the 1/4" bearing should give you an adequate result. Not perfect to calculate rebound but it'll be enough to tell you whether it's an ASO or not. As TP mentioned earlier, cast iron will make a pretty thuddy thwap sound with virtually nothing you can call "ring" notes involved. Even with a steel plate, something like a Vulcan cast iron is pretty clearly thwap and not ting. (starting to sound like a kid's cartoon show with the sound effects here). Assuming steel at 197 lbs, around here a good "market" price would be on the order of $ 3-3.50 a lb. Steel over cast iron like a Vulcan, more like $ 2. Initial asking price could be much higher if the seller is in the "fishing" stages. Not saying that's what they're "worth"...just that's what people tend to pay and ask in this area. Quite a bit of variation too with a lot of sellers thinking they have solid gold anvils and that "China" stamp actually means Royal Dalton Bone China value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halphwit Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Haha I was thinking more like the old Batman and Robin tv show. I hit it with a wire wheel last night so it should be pretty clean for the test I really appreciate all of y'alls input on the topic, thank you. I'll try and make a video on it later tonight of the bearing and hit it with a hammer a few times. I'll post it on here(if possible) or just pit it on YouTube and let y'all be the judges. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horse Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 off topic I know but I would sure love to know what an ASO is. Cant find it anywhere. even checked urban dictionary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodnMetalGuy Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Anvil Shaped Object. Derogatory term for a lump of cast iron... -- Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Olson Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Anvil Shaped Object Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halphwit Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 I thought it was "xxx slap opportunity" you've always got to be ready. Wait what forum is this? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horse Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Thanks finally. I was thinking something a little less obvious. Just for arguments sake a pristine Peter Wright or Hay Budden would also qualify yes? Thanks again I have been seeing this for sometime and must have missed it originally. I think my brain was more in Halphwit's place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halphwit Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, horse said: Thanks finally. I was thinking something a little less obvious. Just for arguments sake a pristine Peter Wright or Hay Budden would also qualify yes? Thanks again I have been seeing this for sometime and must have missed it originally. Not necessarily, unless I've been miss lead a lot of those had a hardened steel plate forge welded to the striking surface and I believe that make them real anvils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-1ToolSteel Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 But they ARE shaped like an anvil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beech Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 And then we have the OSAs, which of course are Object Shaped Anvils (like part of a forklift tine)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Yes the term ASO refers to items shaped like anvils (and often sold as anvils) but are not really anvils and actually work worse than a MUCH cheaper chunk of scrap steel. (connotation vs denotation) The term came into use when the cheap cast iron ASOs from China started proliferating at places like HF and we started getting deluged with "I don't have any money to buy an anvil so I spent 4 times as much as a real anvil, like an OSA, would cost and now I find it's not very usable---how do I make it better?" posts. There are even resellers claiming that their cast iron ASOs are "professional grade" and "made for blacksmithing". They are basically lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halphwit Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 Ok, I'm thinking this thing has got to be steel. I finally put it on its stand and it's ringing like a bell. I am friggin stoked. I'll try and post a video 20170310_183533.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.C. Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Well that certainly sounds like hardened steel to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halphwit Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 Me too!!! I'm so happy I didn't waste my money on a pos. But honestly for what I paid, even if it was cast iron, I would've beat on it until there was nothing left lol. And for anyone else that reads this tomorrow or year's down the line trying to find out if these are worth buying, I say yes. It's solid steel with a hardened face as far as I can tell. At 192# I paid 600$ and I feel like I got a great deal especially for the condition it's in. However I would like to know a little more about them. Where they're from(inside the US) and possibly how old they might be. Maybe someone will stop by and enlighten us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Ravizza Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Halphwit, Nice anvil there! I saw one similar to it years ago. I was told they were made for the military. As I recall, the one I saw was painted olive drab and was completely unused. Any evidence of paint color on yours? If the anvil rings and rebounds well, what more can you ask for? Enjoy! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halphwit Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 Yeah the guy I bought it from was thinking it was from the military but he wasn't sure. He said the company he works for(where he got it) buys up machinery off ships, refurbishes and then sells for profit. But he was saying a some of the stuff they get comes from naval ships so there could be something to that. It had a light grayish paint(kind of hard to see in the pics) that isn't a uncommon color in the ship yards back home(Norfolk,VA). It was almost like an epoxy paint judging on the thickness, actually thick enough to suppress the ring which is why I originally was concerned with it being cast iron. I was wire wheeling on it for a good 25 minutes before it dawned on me... Possibly military/navy... Possibly old... FML!!! I might have just contaminated my entire garage with lead paint dust along with poisoning my self! So I'm waiting until I get a lead paint test kit before I play with it any more or even go in my garage for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckste88 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Did you manage to ever ID it? I just got the same anvil from my grandfather in Germany. all the best stephan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flysocal24 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 I have the same anvil. Not sure of the weight. Has raised “IAF” on the foot. Trying to find info. Not sure I’d cast steel or cast iron. Had whitish Gray paint on it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Easy enough to tell: Method 1: with it unconstrained, tap it with a hammer: thwap is cast iron, TING is cast steel. Method 2: run a grinder on the bottom of the base and do a simple spark test. (Most welding sites will have a drawing or photos of the difference in sparks.) Method 3: see what temperature it melts at. Method 4: try to cut it with a cutting torch---easy to cut==cast steel, not easy==cast iron Method 5: try to sell it to an experienced blacksmith for US$2 a pound; if they sprain their wrist getting their money out it's cast steel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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