RSantore Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Hey guys, I'm pretty new here, but I have been fiddling with metal for a few years now. Anyways, I'm looking into making a graphite electrode arc furnace, using a 115/230V 160amp stick welder as a power supply (65% duty cycle). I primarily want to use it to melt metals like copper and bronze (steel being a stretch goal with more experience) for casting. And I'd like to hear advice for this little project before I really get started; safety, things to look out for, etc. Suggestions on reading material would also be greatly appreciated. Currently my prospective setup is like this: Outside (fume ventilation is not something I want to deal with as much) 230V dryer plug for power (to allow most efficient use of my welder) PPE: leather apron polycarbonate safety glasses face shield (or welding mask/ #5 goggles, depending on how bright things get) respirator (using NIOSH P100 filters) welding gloves I'm probably going to buy some soft refactory brick for the inner chamber, with a welded steel frame to hold it together sand casting Bronze and copper at first, with experience and a lot more knowledge, I might try steel at some point. I don't have much interest in brass, especially with the hazards of zinc I mostly want to do cast works, things like reproduction bronze age swords and art pieces. I have no intent to try to use this as a forge. I have a bit of experience with coal/charcoal forges and I've done a bit of small casting with that, but it's not very efficient, so I want to make an upgrade (and give myself a good project for winter break) I don't know how much of you guys have dabbled with arc furnaces, but I figured it was worth a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Contact an electrician and pay for his expert opinion as to the electric draw and the proper size wiring. You may want to come straight off the breaker box with a properly sized and dedicated line. Have you researched a graphite electrode arc furnace and found the specs for industrial applications? The electric draw and usage may surprise you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSantore Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 The dryer connection I plan to use is a 230V connection installed recently by an electrician for a different (albeit oddly similar) purpose of powering a water heater for my dad's brewing setup, not 100% sure what it's rated amperage is, but I believe it is 100amp, and a trip to the breaker box should resolve that pretty quickly. I know that is all up to code, as well. As far as I am aware (which is admittedly from the standpoint of a hobbyist, not an electrician) I just need to worry about what the welder is designed to pull, as it will prevent itself from drawing anything more than that. I forgot to mention what I got for electrodes; 10x100mm graphite electrodes (they are meant for electric arc type stuff) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 A quick look at the welder specs, or a call to the manufacturer of your welder, should give you the electrical requirements for the welder. The breaker is designed to protect the power supply lines as well as the appliance. You should size the breakers accordingly. You said the welder has a 65% duty cycle. Is that enough to run electrode arc furnace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 you may want to look into getting a welder with a better duty cycle as you want it on continuously for long periods, check what the output is with 100% duty cycle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSantore Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 Yeah, I was thinking about the duty cycle when I first got the idea, 65% is at the maximum 160amps. But I should probably try to contact the manufacturer to see what I'd need to bump it down to to get a 100% duty cycle, just to play it safe. Chances are the first prototype is gonna be pretty small (maybe 1 or 2 kg capacity) so I won't need to worry about cranking it up very high, but later iterations will likely require a better welder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Have you looked at kilns, or induction furnaces? All you have to do with a kiln is put a crucible in it. Induction is very clean, and quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 10 hours ago, RSantore said: The dryer connection I plan to use is a 230V connection installed recently by an electrician for a different (albeit oddly similar) purpose of powering a water heater for my dad's brewing setup, not 100% sure what it's rated amperage is, but I believe it is 100amp, and a trip to the breaker box should resolve that pretty quickly. I know that is all up to code, as well. As far as I am aware (which is admittedly from the standpoint of a hobbyist, not an electrician) I just need to worry about what the welder is designed to pull, as it will prevent itself from drawing anything more than that. I forgot to mention what I got for electrodes; 10x100mm graphite electrodes (they are meant for electric arc type stuff) not sure where you get the idea its 100 amp. I would be shocked to find it 40 amp. Nor did I see any thing listed for head protection or legs or feet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I would strongly suggest a propane foundry. I have seen a graphite rod arc furnace in action but it was a tad larger, the graphite rods were 406.4 mm x several meters and the amperage gauge was marked in kilo-amps. (Melting steel---Very impressive!) I am sure you are aware that many bronze alloys contain zinc and much worse are those containing Beryllium! We always made our own bronze melting pure copper and stirring in molten tin (for small melts unfluxed no-lead plumbing solder could be used as ours was 98% tin and 2% antimony) You are participating at: www.alloyavenue.com › Forum › Metalcasting forums › General foundry talk I assume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSantore Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 8 minutes ago, Steve Sells said: not sure where you get the idea its 100 amp. I would be shocked to find it 40 amp. Nor did I see any thing listed for head protection or legs or feet... I went to the breaker box, the dryer connection is a 60amp (doubled 30). As for feet/ legs, I always wear leather steel toe work boots, and the apron covers down to the tops of those, however if you guys thing I should wear something specific to my legs, I could look into that as well. 3 hours ago, BIGGUNDOCTOR said: Have you looked at kilns, or induction furnaces? All you have to do with a kiln is put a crucible in it. Induction is very clean, and quiet. As for kilns and induction forges, I have looked into those a little bit, the induction setup is a bit beyond my electrical know how, so I didn't want to go that route, and an electric kiln is something that I also plan to make, eventually. I do some ceramics on the side, so having a dedicated kiln would be pretty cool for that. 2 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: I would strongly suggest a propane foundry. I have seen a graphite rod arc furnace in action but it was a tad larger, the graphite rods were 406.4 mm x several meters and the amperage gauge was marked in kilo-amps. (Melting steel---Very impressive!) I am sure you are aware that many bronze alloys contain zinc and much worse are those containing Beryllium! We always made our own bronze melting pure copper and stirring in molten tin (for small melts unfluxed no-lead plumbing solder could be used as ours was 98% tin and 2% antimony) You are participating at: www.alloyavenue.com › Forum › Metalcasting forums › General foundry talk I assume? I would be making my own bronze, I don't like dealing with unknown alloys for the exact reason you stated. I haven't checked that forum out yet, but I certainly will now, thanks for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 dual 30 amp breaker is not 60... its still a 30. so Get a real electrician to wire up your furnace PLEASE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSantore Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, Steve Sells said: dual 30 is not 60... its still a 30. so Get a real electrician to wire up your furnace PLEASE Alright, I will definitely contact someone. I made this post to knock myself off of my pedestal more than anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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