Wilkinson anvil not sitting level

[GMikeH]

I saw an old anvil for sale for $50. I contacted the owner and informed him that I wanted it and would be heading to get it soon. It was pouring down rain so i did not even inspect the anvil, just handed the cash over and grabbed the anvil and left while getting soaked. It was not until much later that night when the rain had passed did i go get the anvil out of the back of the truck and started cleaning it up. First thing i noticed is that the anvil did have a decent ring and the first time i struck it with a hammer i thought the hammer was going to hit me back so the rebound seemed to be very responsive. Later after some cleaning and wire brushing i found it was a Wilkinson anvil and according to the numbers is 120lbs with its vintage being in the 1800s according to the little info i could find online. So, I think for $50 i did well but there seems to be a somewhat major problem which may or may not be fixable. At first I thought the whole anvil was twisted as the face and the base seemed to have the same twist in them. After looking it over more i think the face is good although some corners do seem to slope off a bit. Overall the top is good and flat across its length. The Issue looks to be in one of the legs which is clearly bent. The anvil does not sit level and has a great deal of rock. The other issue is that the bottom of the anvil is rusted and pitted a good bit so maybe that leg just rusted away and it is not really bent. The anvil was recently found under an old house so who knows how long it was there in the dirt rusting away.  Whatever the case, what should I do to fix the base/leg?

 

Here are some pictures and a video of he hammer rebound it has. I am not a blacksmith but my daughter and I would enjoy learning and playing around with some forging.

http://s239.photobucket.com/user/Mhall222/slideshow/Wilkinson Queens Dudley Anvil

 

 

 

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Lovely anvil, tremendous price.  Modify the support base to deal with the issue or clean up the bottom of the anvil; while we say DO NOT TOUCH THE FACE WITH GRINDER OR MILL!!!! there isn't the same problem with the bottom of the anvil.  It's all plain wrought iron and perfectly allowable to fasten it face down on a mill and true the bottom to the face. (My opinion; some folks will throw a rod thinking of any changes to an anvil---unlike the original users who modified as they needed to)

Me I'd draw a line around the anvil on it's "stump" and if it's wood--use a router or chisel to fit.  if it's steel, tack weld the wedge in place.

As these were hand forged under large steam hammers there can be some "individuality" in them.  As I have a dirt floored shop It's easy for me to deal with a couple of degree slant to the face just by setting the anvil stand slightly deeper on one side.

[Glenn]

Adjust the anvil as needed to make the height of the anvil fit the blacksmith using the anvil. Adjust the anvil as needed to make the face of the anvil level. Now that the face of the anvil is at the proper height and the face of the anvil is level, build the anvil stand to match the anvil. Problem solved. (grin)

The stand may be a standard stand where you then use a piece of wood and some carbon paper to remove any high or low spots and make the anvil FIT the wood exactly.

Easier still is to build the stand with a box on the top of the stand to hold 3 inches or so of sand. Put the anvil into the sand, wiggle the anvil a bit. and adjust to the proper height for the face to fit the blacksmith, and to level the face.

[GMikeH]

Thanks for the replies, I had just read about correct anvil height so now that I know that info I can go get some Railroad cross ties from homedepot and get to making a nice sturdy stand. I tend to agree that being the anvil will pretty much stay in one spot, i might as well make that spot fit the anvil rather than trying to make the anvil fit by grinding or welding. Although I am unsure of just how old this anvil is, It is old enough that I kind of would like to leave it alone as far as modifying it. I went out with a nice straight edge stainless ruler to check to top and it was pretty flat but did have a area in the middle that had a slight dish of about .0625" but both edges were straight the full length of the anvil. I must say if in fact that anvil is 150 years old or so, it is still in pretty good shape.

[ThomasPowers]

Glenn; thanks for adding the "sand box" stand; it would be a great answer to dealing with an anvil with a rocky base where the owner doesn't want to modify the anvil.

GMikeH; welcome and if you are in the USA I would suggest you find a local ABANA Affiliate to attend some meetings with your daughter.  If you are near me let me know and I'd be happy to introduce you to the local crowd and resources. (unlikely since you mention rain...)  We generally suggest folks edit their profile to put in a "general" location as so many smithing questions have a location factor in their answers---Where to get steel?  Over there a couple of miles...

Your anvil is a great size for hobby work, hefty enough to take some pounding; but light enough to move fairly easily. (Though Anvils tend to be like Milo's Ox...)

[GMikeH]

Thomas, I am in South Ga (albany aea). I have the ABANA website bookmarked already but I have not looked up to see if there is a local affiliate in my area. As for where I would get my steel, i have a but pile of scrap stuff I tend to hang onto. I have been dabbling in about all hobbies you can imagine over the last 20 years and my butt hangs on to everything. hahaha I have I bet 100lbs of scrap aluminum i hope to smelt down at some point as well and if I find the time maybe do some sand casting of various items on top of general forge work. My daughter and I have been hooked on many of the popular youtube knife forging channels and we will sit and watch for hours while someone create a nice blade. She is only 12 but is more into shop activities than my 17 year old son who is immersed into teen life more than shop life. haha

I hope to build a stand over the weekend and then i need to build a forge which for now may be something temporary and cheap until I have more time to build a proper forge.

[ThomasPowers]

one quick thing: you melt aluminium; you smelt bauxite...

I've got a grand daughter about the age of your son and 5 under your daughter's age.  Nice thing about smithing is that your family can participate; shoot Dorothy Stigler has been president of ABANA and one of the current books out "The Backyard Blacksmith" was written by Lorelei Sims (and would make a wonderful Christmas present...).

Keep up the good work!

[C-1ToolSteel]

Great score on that anvil!!! I would probably just pick up a few bottles of liquid nails at Home Depot and just squish it on there. For easy forge ideas, look up "just a box of dirt or a simple side blast forge. The best advice I can give you is to start small. Good luck!

[seldom (dick renker)]

depending on how bad the rock is, you could use some of the wooden wedges they use to square up doors and windows. they have worked fine for me in several different applications.

[Marc1]

mm ... if it is me, my OCD would kick in and I would probably run the the engineering shop, place the anvil upside down and get all 4 feet milled level .

How much is the difference? And can you tell if it is a forging defect or rust eating away at one leg? 

You could also build up the shorter leg if the difference is too much. 

A picture would help. 

Or you can just ignore it and level it as you can. 

$50? Serious? 

A gift from the anvil gods.

[GMikeH]

Marc, I know what you mean about OCD. I am an idiot when it comes to perfectionism but I am doing much better with that in recent years. haha

There is a link to pictures above. Honestly when sighting down the bottom, it almost looks like the anvil is twisted but, I think either one leg is rusted away a good bit more than the others or maybe the leg got bent somehow? Maybe someone dropped it once over the last 150 years it has been in existence?  I think I will be able to just level it with the stand I build. I have not had time to mess with it this afternoon as my well pump control box fried for some reason. The pump ohm's out well within specs yet for some reason the relay in the control box was toasted to were my whole 3 acres smells like an electrical fire.

 

Yep $50 but in all honesty, I did not have change to break a twenty so I gave him $60. The add he had listed was getting a huge amount of attention and people calling from all over offering to come buy it. I was glad he keep his word and didnt sell it until I got there to get it myself.

 

[Marc1]

Oh I just saw that link ... yes ... not rust, that anvil was born like that. Plenty of meat to flatten the base, but probably a heresy and not necessary. 

if you really wanted to do it, you would have to grind away all rust on the base, build up the lower edges with a welder and then machine it flat. THat way you take away minimal original metal. 

or just make a twisted base for it

 

[JHCC]

My anvil (a ca. 1830-5 Mousehole) has a rock to it as well. When I had it on a wooden base, I just carved the base to match. Now that it's on a metal base, I just bedded it on a thick layer of silicone caulk. Both methods work beautifully. 

[Marc1]

Sure, you can do that, however that one in the picture seems to have like 1/2" or so difference. 

[GMikeH]

Marc, the twist is more like .25" although that picture does make it look to be a great deal more. I had cut an old dead tree down a few weeks ago, The trunk was still fairly solid other than just under the bark. I cut a log out of it and set the anvil on it and funny thing is there is no rocking at all. The log was just cut with a chainsaw but it is still pretty flat but i guess the high areas must have just enough room to settle into the log to keep it from rocking. The log is not in the best of shape so i will still be building a nice stand with something like railroad cross ties or something.

Check out what I found tucked away in all my junk. I had purchased a lead casting setup from a guy that clearly did not know what he had. Included was a torch with stand, 3 crucibles for melting lead, lead molds, a big propane tank, about 50lbs of led bars, and all these tools for a whooping $100. I have had this stuff for years and just never did anything with it. ON top of all, the guy had a huge plastic container with about 20lbs worth of new and used taps from 1" down to 1/8" that he threw in as I was loading up the other stuff. I was told is was his fathers stuff and he had no clue what any it was and just wanted it gone.  I can see that a good many of these tools are going to come in handy if not are pretty much needed for handling the material which i am forging. Now I just need to build or find a furnace of some kind, I Iike the coal type but, i may build a small propane furnace for now being I may be able to adapt the torch that I already have.

 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Mike, glad to have you. What a SWEET score! Don't sweat level it doesn't matter unless its WAY out of level, say your hammer slides off if you let go of it, Rocking is more serious but not a deal breaker. My anvil stand is a steel tripod so it sits securely on any surface though on rare occasions it has rocked. VERY rare.

With some use your eye hand coordination will easily compensate for quite a bit of out of level. Your eye is matching the hammer face to the anvil's face where ever that is. I use the side of my anvil regularly, sometimes the wide curve under the heal. It's just learning hammer control and building skill.

RR ties are good, stand them on end and band or screw and glue them together. It'll be a good stout stand that'll be going strong when you and your daughter teache your Grandkids to smith.

Nice score in the tools too. The 5 on the left are tire tools. I'm not sure what the next one is, tongs modified to do a particular job OR modified by someone who didn't have a clue. Uh then I see a nice bunch of tongs: Flat(probably); pickup; flat, wolf jaw bolt, round or V bits; pickup; small crucible; Not sure what the large plier tongs are for but Id be happy to have a pair; cup or round bit tongs, very popular with farriers; Long straight bits but may be more specialized; and last but not least are saw tongs or tongs used for handling reasonably large pieces of sheet metal. That's it for the tongs I see. I had to use ; rather than a , because some tongs needed  more explanation and it ended up with so many commas it was confusing me and I knew what I was writing.

The last things. A pair of end nippers. A chisel of some sort, masonry maybe but well used, grind off the mushrooming before you use it.

Two of the last things look like some sort of struck tool but that's a WAG and the last one is a genuine whatchacallit.

Frosty The Lucky.

[GMikeH]

I went and got my burner back from my dad who had made some lead weights up a while back. I got home just in time for the rain to set in but that did not stop me from firing this thing up and heating my first bit of steel up to hammer out on a soaking wet anvil standing in the rain. Yeah granted the metal was just a framing nail but i can say i have forged something on my anvil now. haha  I guess the anvil issue has been solved with common sense so I better start a new thread seeking ideas or info on where to go in the area of a forge.

Here is my little burner.. I could not find any info on the setup but it was for sure professional unit  and well made.

 

[duckcreekforge]

Prest-o-lite? For sealing cast iron drain pipes with lead and oakum. I think maybe the right hand struck tools are to tighten the leaded joints.