Logan Bryant Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Can anyone tell me what a good ratio of clay, sand, ash, and water would be to make a washtub forge would be? Can you use clay cat litter? What kind of sand? All help would be appreciated. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Logan, this has been covered countless times, including in threads that you yourself have contributed to. You're new here and you've already seen how helpful people on IFI are willing to be, but let me give you a little advice: repeatedly asking basic questions that you can easily find the answers to yourself will erode that willingness right quick. I've said this before and I'll say it again: don't ask a question that's been asked and answered already. How do you find out if a question has been asked already? Do your research. Read through the forums exhaustively, and do google searches with "iforgeiron" as a search term. Not only will you find the answer you need (or at very least be able to ask a more precise, informed question), but you'll pick up lots of other useful information along the way. I'll throw in another bit of advice while I'm at it: one of the great advantages of clay is that if it doesn't work, you can break it out again and start over. I've redone the clay lining of my rivet forge several times myself: three or four times to get the shape right, and once or twice because the lining wore out. Don't get fussy about it; just do it. If it doesn't work, learn from that and do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Bryant Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 Sound advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 At risk of thread jacking I'll step in with an observation in an attempt to add more value to this thread. I've been following the clay threads for a while and one thing I noticed in one of Thomas' replies is that clinker loves to stick to clay. I hadn't seen this except in that one post and it has made me re-think using clay to re-shape my fire-pot in my barrel forge. I am now thinking of using Kast-O-Lite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Bryant Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 Ive seen alot of people talking about that. To get around the clinker issue i went ahead and bout a small tub of refractory cement to coat the inside of the bowl with to add some extra rigidity and hopefully keep the clinker off the clay. On top of that i plan on putting sand in the bottom of the bowl like a gentleman suggested to me yesterday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I have some of that pre mixed refractory cement, you do have to apply in very thin layers or it won't harden. Also it is not rated to be outdoors although I haven't had any issues with it, but I do live in a hot, mostly dry climate and I do keep the forge covered when not in use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Adding a sand layer that forms clinker when mixed in with the fuel is not a good way to go IMNSHO. Almost everything in a blacksmith's shop is a "consumable"; far better to get started and *do* stuff than try to figure out the *best* method and getting nothing done. Shoot my firepot is about due for it's 4 or 5th forge. I think this one I will make easier to break down as loading is getting to be a pain in the back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Good Morning, Logan There is no "Wright Way" or Perfect Way to create the Base. Anything works, Heat goes up, Knot down. Refractory in the base of a Coal Forge is a waste of good Refractory. Clinker and Forge Ash works good, it is just a Base for around the Tuyere. Where do you get the Clinker and Ash? By starting a fire and getting on with it!! Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 E gads don't waste cast-o-lite on a solid fuel forge! You all are overthinking this. Dirt is fine, what ever dirt you find under the topsoil in your yard will work. Yes if you use clay with coal clinker will stick to it, so don't form a small bowl, form a large shallow one, fire dosnt spread much past the blast (forced air) zone, and will go out with out the blast (takes longer with good bituminous than with andricite) just enuge to protect the box from the heat. It certainly isn't necisary for a steel box, but it is nice to fill the space with somthing other than fuel. Then as stated ash and clinker will collect on its own. Sand will form clinker for a wile, but again ash and climber will collect and that will stop. Many smiths recomend an Adobe mix to overcome this, anything from 10-40 % clay and anything from 30-90% sand will work. Don't over think it. I used clay because I find feel like trudging down to the river for a bucket of sand/silt to use, eithe strate or as Adobe. You new guys tend to get stuck on one "right" way. Be it clay, break drum etc. Have you ever seen TP's post about using a popcorn tin or even a plastic bucket? How bout the guy who backpacks around eastern Europe with what is essentially a comertial size stainless mixing bowl that he places on a tripod? How about Sherman's March to the sea? The smiths abandoned their portable forges and used packing crates and wood cribes to make temperary forges. Open your mind, don't limit it buy building a floor, celing and 4 walls around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Bryant Posted November 5, 2016 Author Share Posted November 5, 2016 I would like to start with a huge thank you to all of you folks for your advice...ive got the new forge up and running with the kitty litter clay and it works like a charm...in the process of forging my take on a Roman gladius from a ferrier rasp...thanks again gentlemen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 7 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said: E gads don't waste cast-o-lite on a solid fuel forge! You all are overthinking this. Dirt is fine, what ever dirt you find under the topsoil in your yard will work. Yes if you use clay with coal clinker will stick to it, so don't form a small bowl, form a large shallow one, fire dosnt spread much past the blast (forced air) zone, and will go out with out the blast Charles, I appreciate all your advice. This is what I am trying to do. The forge surfaces are pretty hard and durable now which I like because it doesn't fall apart when I shove stock into the pot. The problem is the shape and depth, the funnel shape lets my coal roll into the fire, can't keep any waiting on the edge it will just roll in. Plus the pot is too deep, I can only get good heat on the ends of my work piece and not the middle unless I build a huge fire so I want to bring that up a bit to be able to pass longer stock thru the fire instead of trying to jam it down into the hole. I need to use something fairly stable so it doesn't just fall into the tuyre. The bottom of the fire pot is 1/4" plate and I made my grate out of 1/4" and it sits 1.5" above the Tuyre. I thought I would use clay and I do have a few ounces of pre mixed refractory cement left in the bottom of the pail which will dry up if I don't use it soon. Does this seem reasonable? The forge I didn't build but received free from a customer who inherited it when they bought a house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 3 hours ago, Logan Bryant said: I would like to start with a huge thank you to all of you folks for your advice...ive got the new forge up and running with the kitty litter clay and it works like a charm...in the process of forging my take on a Roman gladius from a ferrier rasp...thanks again gentlemen Glad things are going well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Try a bullet grate, take a 2" pipe cap and drill a 3/4" hole in the center and drop that in to your forge, might need a pile nipple to get it up the level you need. The center of the fire should be at or just above the top of the forge table, extra fuel is piled around this on the table. The clinker will form a ring around the bullet grate below the air. charcal is a differ animal. Charcoal is a bit different animal FYI, use the air to control the fire size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 I like that idea and hopefully will do that tomorrow if I get my huge list of chores and honey dos finished. (started a small plumbing task today and, well you know how that goes. Dam Kohler, at least I got to fab up a special wrench to work on the stupid thing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Bryant Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 So just a personal question. What does everyone forge? I picked it up just as a hobby because i love designing knives and thought i would give knife making a try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 7 minutes ago, Logan Bryant said: So just a personal question. What does everyone forge? I picked it up just as a hobby because i love designing knives and thought i would give knife making a try? Logan, there's already a separate thread for that. Check out "Interview with a blacksmith". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 simple to answer: Yes---except for shoeing horses or cattle. I've even repointed a jackhammer bit for a neighbor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Charles, I took your advice on the bullet grate but I used 3" and filled in the rest of the "funnel" with sand. I drilled 7 holes in it 1/2" diameter. I raised the fire up nicely and it worked well as I didn't have to shove my work down into the hole. I did notice that the hot spot was pretty small, about 1.5" to 2" and once I got used to that it was pretty easy to place the part of the stock needing heat in that spot, however I wonder if it will be beneficial to drill another row of holes in the cap? I also made the side draft today but due to my forge design I couldn't get it close enough to the fire so tomorrow I plan to build an extension "snout" hood on it. My stack is 10" and I made my opening 9 X 9" before realizing the area of a 9x9 is almost the same as the 10" pipe so I will make the snout hood 8 X 8" in hopes of a better Venturi effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 more air will make the fire larger, more holes will defeat the idea of Sheding slag to the sides. Remember it's hard to forge more than 6" by hand at a time befor loosing the heat anyway. Moving the stock back and forth and inch or two will spread things out. Not a bad looking set up there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Whoops I drilled another row of holes before you responded. I was researching and came across Glenn's post on barrel forges where he says to get as much of an opening as possible.Oh well it's nothing permanent, that's what I really like about your bullet grate, nothing is permanent. I also lowered it an inch by simply swapping in another nipple. With the extra holes I had a ton more air, had to shut the air gate all the way. Maybe my imagination (or maybe I should stick to one change at a time) but it seemed like the fire was not as hot, at least for the first 45 min or so. I'll blow a 3/4" hole in another cap and see how I like that. The side draft extension was a huge success, in fact it pulls so well I find my fire ball slowly creeping toward it. A little breeze showed up later and some scrap water heater parts took care of that. Planning to cut up a short, large diameter water heater I have to make a one piece wind dam that will simply slide over the hood extension. I will make a post in the chimney section. Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I use a side blast with a 7/8" opening (3/4" black pipe) and a bottom blast trench forge with a 1"x3/8" opening. I only use raw wood in the bottom blast, and stock that needs longer than 6" heats. You will work out what works for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caintuckrifle Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 I use and recommend the refractory recipe found on www.backyardmetalcasting.com portland cement pearlite sand bentonite clay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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