Historic Postvise Examples

[ThomasPowers]

While browsing through "Furnishing Williamsburg's Historic Buildings"  I ran across a painting they were using as a source "John Cuff and an Assistant" by Johann Zoffany, 1772

Showing an excellent postvise in the foreground.  To my eye it looks to have the tanged mounting bracket and a built up screwbox; but I'd not be surprised to see one like it at Q-S!  Not the earliest picture as there are several at least 100 years earlier as I recall but one of the clearest to see.

[Gergely]

This is a great picturing of the vise.

I like Henri Louis Duhamel Du Monceau's blacksmithing related pictures from the Art du serrurier (1767) but there are some misteries: ie. how would the following postvise work:

Although the whole picture is worth of seeing, too:

[ThomasPowers]

Moxon has one show in "Mechanick Exercises" published in 1703: though the mounting bracket is more left to the imagination (as is the mounting of the spring as well)

Diderot's Encyclopedia (1751-1772) of course had examples:

 

[Ridgewayforge]

1 hour ago, Gergely said:

I like Henri Louis Duhamel Du Monceau's blacksmithing related pictures from the Art du serrurier (1767) but there are some misteries: ie. how would the following postvise work:

Could it even be possible to make a one piece post vice, with the bottom being the spring, as in the picture- like a spring fuller. It would act a bit differently than a normal post vise, but it could be an interesting project. 

[ThomasPowers]

Hard to make it both springy and stable to use as a vise with pounding done on it.  I was thinking of a pocket  and rounded foot on the moving jaw for that type of vise rather than a cylinder pivot like "normal vises" but could not see an advantage and several disadvantages for heavy work.

[gote]

7 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Hard to make it both springy and stable to use as a vise with pounding done on it.  I was thinking of a pocket  and rounded foot on the moving jaw for that type of vise rather than a cylinder pivot like "normal vises" but could not see an advantage and several disadvantages for heavy work.

The artist probably worked partly from memory. I.e. he made sketches on site and finished in the study misinterpreting his sketch. I assume that both jaws rest on a common plate on the floor The blackish line may be a spring.  What are the disadvantages? I would assume that it were a god idea to have both jaws carry the pounding down to the support without a bracket introducing a bending moment in the leg. All provided that the support is stable and the moving jaw cannot rotate around a vertical axis.

Thank you for the fantastic pictures!

[ThomasPowers]

If the leg is thin enough to act as a spring, it's too thin to deal with the impacts from above.  (Full size jaws going all the way to the ground would be great for heavy work but use an awful lot of metal for the vise!)

[Frank Turley]

Is there such a thing as a leg vise aficionado? I am he. I have a vise similar to the one in the Zoffany painting, which I show in the three submitted images. I hope it can go to a museum or collector some day. I've also shown an elaborate French vise that I copied from a book. The same vise is pictured in d'Allemagne's "Decorative Antique Ironwork." Regarding a visible mounting, it sometimes doesn't show because it is under the bench top. This was seen at the Dominy clockmaking workshop in Hummel's excellent book/catalog, "With Hammer in Hand."

[beaudry]

 Any idea of the craft being practiced in the first painting in the original post ?

My guess is maybe a lens grinder with the various ceramic jars containing grinding compounds and the odd shaped piece of glass on the shelf, the base material from which the lenses were cut ?

Virtually any craft would benefit from having a vise at hand and until fairly recently, the post vise was the only type available.

Does anyone know when the first mechanics or machinist type vises with the parallel  jaws came into use ?

 

[aessinus]

34 minutes ago, Frank Turley said:

Is there such a thing as a vise aficionado? I am he. I have a vise similar to the one in the Zoffany painting, which I show in the three submitted images.

I hope it can go to a museum or collector some day.

Frank, is the mounting tang mortised through both the fixed jaw and the spring?  If so, I am going to rethink my DIY plan.  Drifting through liuft forks would be tough on my smaller anvils, but I have access to a mill & carbide mills.  This may qualify me for some overdue vacation. 

[Frank Turley]

Yes, the tenon goes through an upper portion of the fixed leg and the spring. The tenon slot for the wedge must be placed accurately so when the wedge is driven, it draws the mount and the spring tightly. The spring doesn't need the little right angle bend at the top; that was only needed when the surrounding U-shackle came into use at a later date.

[gote]

2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

If the leg is thin enough to act as a spring, it's too thin to deal with the impacts from above.  (Full size jaws going all the way to the ground would be great for heavy work but use an awful lot of metal for the vise!)

I misunderstood you I agree 100%

John Cuff was a famous british microscope maker in the eighteent century

[Alan Evans]

13 hours ago, Ridgewayforge said:

Could it even be possible to make a one piece post vice, with the bottom being the spring, as in the picture- like a spring fuller. It would act a bit differently than a normal post vise, but it could be an interesting project. 

Like a giant pin vice? As Thomas says pounding on the spring not ideal.

I can't see why the moving jaw has to be pivoting on a through pin though. If the jaw bottom was just located in a socket so it would not kick out sideways, and with a radiused (to the jaw length) tip to roll in the socket bottom it would work fine, and could easily be built robustly enough to take more of a pounding than the normal max. Ø20mm (³/₄") pivot pin.

Interesting that Diderot's fig. 18 in Thomas' illustrations shows the moving jaw to be riveted fixed with two rivets rather than the single pivot! Don't necessarily blame the Artist...in between the artists sketches and final illustration there is also an engraver or etcher working back to front to make the plate for the printing press...

What a wonderful fuller faced anvil...fig.1 in Gergely's Art du Serrurier image...I fancy one of those.

Alan

[ThomasPowers]

Yes the painting describes him as a lensmaker; luckily they put the vice front and center!   Looking through some of the old pictures I noticed that in the 18th century multiple vices seem to be common for some examples often mirroring the multiple workers in a shop.  Going backwards the number of postvises per shop seem to decrease.

 I often attribute ornate examples of workman's tools as the result of making them for the journeyman's test.

It's been fun tracking down online copies of pages I have in books on my shelf...However I leave for an extended trip to Quad-State Tomorrow evening, (by way of two sets of kids & grandkids and a fiber conference).  So I will be offline till near October!