bigb Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Brought this one home yesterday. First off I need to figure out a thrust washer arrangement to make clearance on the front where the handle bumps the protrusion on the jaw. A previous owner bent the handle for clearance. Also, there is no sign of a key on the screw box it is either worn away or not the original screw box. How should I go about this? I am thinking to cut a keyway into the box and press fit a key to match the one in the hole. Either that or try to braze something? I have access to tig, stick, mig and O/A. (Not sure what that ugly weld blob is all about, I am going to grind it off). Lastly, should I try and butt weld a piece onto the leg to restore it's height? I would grind each half to a taper and clamp into a jig made from angle iron. Any tips welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Yes you can lengthen the leg if you want. Stick welding with 7018 works well IMHO. Suggest you drill and tap then bolt the key on. The thrust washer should be female conical on the side facing the handle for good surface contact at varrying opening positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Braze the key, have to degrease the screwbox extremely well. Weld the leg as discussed, Or you can match the leg material and forge weld on the extension. What is the issue with making a 1/2" thick washer with a beveled inner edge?. Looks like a machinist vise was used for replacement parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 8 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: What is the issue with making a 1/2" thick washer with a beveled inner edge?. That's what I'll do although the way the end on the screw is shaped it looks like I should make the washer with a male cone on the vise side and a female cone on the handle side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 bigb, do you have access to another post vise that you can use to determine the geometry of the missing pieces? That may save you a lot of time and frustration. Lots of the vises have basically similar parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 As you want the washer to be able to slide as the angle of the moving leg changes; making it to lock in is probably what you don't want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 58 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: As you want the washer to be able to slide as the angle of the moving leg changes; making it to lock in is probably what you don't want to do. Right. Flat side against the vise, female conical against the screw only because it is already shaped that way. IMHO the screw box key is best bolted because cast iron in a circumferance is difficult to weld/braze without cracking. Not saying it can't be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 If you are going to cut a keyway into the box you might think about fixing the key to the vice rather than the box. If that is a solid lump of cast iron on the end of the screw box you could cut your slot in that and extend the key out to it. Alternatively you could cut a couple of flats on the boss of the screw box and weld some cheeks either side of the hole on the fixed jaw to prevent rotation. Both the screw box and the screw need to be able to articulate in the vertical plane to allow for the changing jaw angle. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 12 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: As you want the washer to be able to slide as the angle of the moving leg changes; making it to lock in is probably what you don't want to do. Ok I see. I just thought with the conical shapes it would allow the screw to angle with the jaws. But you guys are saying leave it loose in the opening, it's okay if it drops into the bottom of the hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, bigb said: Ok I see. I just thought with the conical shapes it would allow the screw to angle with the jaws. But you guys are saying leave it loose in the opening, it's okay if it drops into the bottom of the hole? No it needs to be larger than the hole. I will put up some photos in the morning. The washer on my main vise is a half inch (13mm) thick and clearly hand forged and flat on both sides because there is a large flat on the handle end of the screw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I have seen some where people have used a roller bearing for the washer so there is no friction loss. A spherical roller bearing would conform to the changing angles and deliver thrust. The fanciest plain bearing washer system I have seen was a pair of discs, flat on the outer sides where they were in contact with the screw head and moving jaw, but a shallow 'dome and bowl' / large radius 'ball and socket" formed between them. The conical shapes you speak of would tend to lock parallel if male and female cones were the same. If the male cone was steeper, had a narrower included angle, just bear on the bottom edge. If the male cone was broader it would just bear top and bottom on the edge of the female. An angled plane through a cone is an ellipse form. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Thanks for all the suggestions. Progress will probably be slow as I have about a million irons in the fire. Started cleaning the jaws tonight and made a pleasant discovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 Got the key finished. I cut a groove into the screw box with a die grinder then fitted an edge piece from a shear drop that fit the rounded groove perfectly. Brazed it together then ground the key so that it fits the keyway but rounded so the screwbox has ample vertical movement. Works great. Arftist I gave strong consideration to drilling and tapping but one issue is the location on the sloped edge does not have much depth for very many threads. Will start the thrust washer for the handle this week after work. Not sure if I'll forge one from square stock or just cut one from some 2" circles of plate. I have a whole bucket of plasma drop plate circles from 2" to 6", 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 Finally got the thrust washer finished today, works great too! Now I have more questions! 1. Is the U bolt possibly an original way this vise was mounted? It cants pretty easily side to side when cranking on it which makes me wonder about the mount. 2. What do you recommend for lubrication of the screw and thrust washer? I read somewhere where someone recommended anti sieze. 3. Anyone ever make a housing for the screw? I don't own a lathe but I was thinking of pipe nipples/caps and a reducing bell. Or a coupling with a finial threaded into one end and brazed onto a bell reducer. 4. I know, I know just use it right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 U bolts were used on some mounting plates for columbian vises and were fitted to the shaft so there was little play. I believe that is a replacement version just like the spring is a replacement and the screw and screwbox is a replacement. Shim it tight or make your own mounting plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 I really cranked the U bolt down tight and it helped a lot, just a little movement now. There is a raised area just below it which makes a "saddle" for the U bolt to reside between this raised area and the jaw. What's the best thing to use to lube the screw? The vise will live outside but under a roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 What do you have on the shelf? Anything is better than nothing. Grease or chainsaw bar oil with a spoonful of graphite would be as good as any. I use graphite rich grease for vice screws. The best thing is good and frequent maintenance but life sometimes gets in the way of that. The advantage of loads of graphite is that it hangs around and keeps doing its job even if the maintenance gets overlooked once in a while. The disadvantage of loads of graphite is that it hangs around...if your vice is multi purpose and you want to use it for a nice white wood carving project... My furniture maker father would always rub a white candle (paraffin wax) over vice screws, saw bench surfaces, plane soles, hand saws and etc....his kit was indoors but we have a lot of condensation here. If you intend to attempt any paint or lacquer finishes at any time do not use any silicone based lubricants even though in many ways they would be ideal...you just can't get rid of them in any way. Well, according to paint shop lore and personal experience of silicone caused finishing disasters. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 are you in hot AZ or cold AZ? However I usually use whatever is on the shelf and here it's usually the swamp cooler oiler... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 I'm in the desert. I have just about everything lube wise in my shop. The swamp cooler oiler sounds like a plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 I have one of those vises in original condition... Only missing the pipe jaws. If you need pictures let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 43 minutes ago, BIGGUNDOCTOR said: I have one of those vises in original condition... Only missing the pipe jaws. If you need pictures let me know. A picture or two would be greatly appreciated. Mine has the number "50" on the jaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 I prefer a heavy oil for the screw lube. Grease tends to attract and hold scale and krud which may cause early wear on the screw. If you are outside in a sandy, dusty locale, the grease can get gummed up pretty quickly. But then if you don't use the vise a lot it may be a mute point. Just keep it well lubed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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