Diy coal forge

[Beatsy' s Forge]

I am trying  to get started with this new addiction called Blacksmithing. I am wondering if anyone one has built an indoor coal forge using fire brick?I am able to get as much as I want different sizes,all hard brick not insulation brick and carbon based brick ,castable and K Wool basically I have access to all the refractory I need from my former employer and refractory company that does work for US Steel I am Interested in building one that will last so I would like to stay away from K-Wool unless I am only using it for insulation purposes. I would like the hood to be brick also.air powered for now by a bathroom exhaust fan I already have using a 2 in. brass gate value. I also want to build a propane forge using a 20 gal. Compressor tank I have again want to use K-Wool to line it then castable over it all my question is how long should the tank be cut down to and how many burners are needed to get up welding temperature with it .I have no idea how to build these if there is anyone that can help contact me shandazzle78@gmail.com. 

Thank Martin 

I  ended plans for an indoor coal forge made of fire brick and castable 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Martin, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the Iforge gang live within visiting distance.

First question. Yes, people have been building forges with brick for thousands of years some indoors some outdoors some kinda sorta.

Did you have another question?

Iforgeiron has tens of thousands of posts archived by subject in sections and sub-sections. Nothing you asked nor stated as your rather ambiguous desires are new here. If you pull up a comfy chair, stock some beverages and snacks you can spend many hours a day reading and learning what you might maybe want to know.

There are obstacles to overcome breaking into any new craft and getting someone to TELL you how to build your almost certainly incorrect IDEA of the perfect tools and equipment is probably the hardest to get over. Just your "mission statement?" says loud and clear you don't know enough to ask a good question let alone understand the answers. There is a base level of knowledge a person has to have to make progress and that's available, gladly furnished by the site owner and all the long winded blacksmith guys who've answered every question you'll probably ask once you know what and how to ask.

I'm not blowing you off, I'd like to see another addict get involved and start making their visions appear in forged steel. You need to start at the beginning, not somewhere else. Nobody is born knowing this stuff, not even where to start, once we collected the knowledge of a thing we had to practice it to get proficient, collect something else, practice, repeat, etc. then in a while we started trying to put things together, occasionally getting something to work.

Trying to jump in at the "inventing perfect tools" stage is a recipe for repeated failures. Don't sweat it everybody does or did it, ask me sometime. So, what I offer you is a free gift of MY failures, mistakes and occasional victories. You just can't jump in and understand what it means but it's yours if you want it.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Michael Cochran]

Take my suggestion for what it's worth, I've only been at it for a few years now so I'm no expert or professional but I do know a couple things.

1. Frosty is one of the good guys here that has helped me so much over the years reading posts for me and for others. That said if he answers take note. (He's not the only one here like that, just making a point.)

2. Build yourself a temporary/portable forge to use for a while. That way you can fine tune some specifics and make sure you really want to invest the time and resources to build a 'permanent' forge. I had intentions of building a brick one like the ones in old blacksmiths shops but haven't done it. Any ideas why? I keep makin changes to my setup every time I find a problem. Everything from firepot shape/size/depth to the size of pipe for the air supply. Those changes would be difficult to say the least if I'd built one out of brick. In essence start small and build up from there.

[notownkid]

40 minutes ago, Frosty said:

 

Iforgeiron has tens of thousands of posts archived by subject in sections and sub-sections

yes there are BUT all the pictures were lost on anything more than a yr or so old.  Now in my case I need the pictures to understand what is written as everyone describes things differently or using regional terms.   It is apparent that all the pictures are never coming back.   

[Michael Cochran]

When I see the posts with no pictures I start getting creative with google searches if it's something I absolutely have to see. Most of the time I can have a pretty good visual just from the description. The 'regional terms' do make things interesting but again Google can help with that.

[DSW]

1 hour ago, notownkid said:

yes there are BUT all the pictures were lost on anything more than a yr or so old.  Now in my case I need the pictures to understand what is written as everyone describes things differently or using regional terms.   It is apparent that all the pictures are never coming back.   

You can try PMing the original poster and ask if they can repost the picts or if they have possibly posted them on another site where you can view them.

 

Yeah it's sad that IPS doesn't seem at all interested in fixing the problem they created that lost all the old picts.

[Beatsy' s Forge]

Yep this is what I am trying to get at.Alot of reading for almost nothing lot of people argue about what they think is the best and all I want to do is build a permanent indoor coal forge. Some have said I am going to big to soon but I am doing this project to avoid having to build more and more. Besides all the materials are free to me so why not go big or go home .I know I know have the drive and determination to become a good smith some day and I know it won't happen overnight. It is expected to learn as you go isn't that what all of you have done.I just wanted to have someone give me a hand on a personal basis and not redirect me to forums to read.I have the interest I just need a guiding hand so to speak. Thanks everyone. I ask if there is someone who is willing to give me some direction other than redirection no offense intended but the help would be appreciated and the knowledge gained would be priceless. Oh and I have about 15 to 20 yards of lump coal from Pennsylvania free at my disposal. So with a little help and advice, direction other than youtube would be appreciated. I  would like if someone who has diy a coal forge from fire brick and castable to assist me in my quest. 

     Thanks Sincerely, Martin Moldovan at Beatsy's Forge 

[notownkid]

I've been looking at and getting pictures, visiting museums with  coal  forges for years in planning my retirement shop,  the time is here but no help and I can't do it alone any longer I've dropped the idea and I'm going back to a cast forge I bought 35 yrs ago.  They were many designs used originally.  Go on a road trip  look around at museums and old shops.  I  don't know any in your area.

[Beatsy' s Forge]

Yeah me either I will draw something up and post it so people can get a better idea of what I want to build. Like I have said I have and can get all the refractory stuff that I need for free so why not build a permanent indoor coal forge. I don't see an issue with it even if I am a beginner, someday I won't be and I will be glad I built the thing . I don't think there are any historical forges to see first hand around me.but all I need is a plan I have the place the ambition and the time to become a good smith someday just takes time and I have plenty of that.

[Michael Cochran]

Since you're dead set on building a permanent forge right away I'll ask a simple question. Have you tried a google search for brick forges to see what comes up? I did when I was thinking about it and i found all sorts of pictures and even some with rough dimensions. You can also find some of the old blacksmithing books that show brick forge construction.

[Beatsy' s Forge]

2Yep and I have a pretty good idea on what I'm looking for . trying to figure out what type of hood will be best.I want the hot pot to be 10inx12inx3.75in ,table size 3.5ftx4.5ft.trying to decide whether Wether to use castable for this or fire brick. Also trying to figure out if I could use carbon brick for the pot.I have 220lbs.of Vesuvius brand Criterion65 high aluminum content ,55lbs of Dry Pack Grout 088b50its a non shrink structural grout refractory and No.200 Volclay about 55lbs,all the hard fire brick I can handle and carbon based brick for lining and blast furnace which is the working surface. Not to mention 15/20 yards of lump coal from Pennsylvania. So he'll yea I want to build a permanent forge . Wouldn't you if it was all freeeeeeeeeee?

[Beatsy' s Forge]

This is what I thought would be best for my smithy or at least something similar. I have pot dimensions and I think a side draft would be my best option size wise not huge but the one pictured is in my opinion perfect. What do you think about a brick table or castable I am unsure because bricks may shift or heave but castable may crack but can be patched pretty easily.

[Michael Cochran]

What do the diagrams and pictures from old blacksmithing books show? Was it cast able or brick? I'm trying to help you and you're not seeing it.

People here are only going to help you if you're willing and able to help yourself.

[Beatsy' s Forge]

Brick  for the most part ,so are you saying to build it the same general way.I do realize you are given me help.And I am sure by everyone's redirection to previous posts or archives is an easy way to blow off someone who is just getting started. Wichita is understandable who wants to answer the same ridiculous questions over and over again. I mean I get it.

These are some sketches I have made to give everyone an idea of my plan and to feel free to comment on or suggest and changes in in what I already have in my head. Top view will be posted soon and the table height from the floor to the top of the table is 31in. Thanks for your valuable comments and suggestions it is appreciated. 

[notownkid]

most recent plan was to use this forge that weighs a "ton" and has everything needed to operate and I could have it repaired in a day or so and brick it in to look  like a forge and add a hood to it,  there is a small chance I may do it yet but still no help??  my son a former mason hays all summer so he is out of the picture.  My  normal helper just turned 74 and he and I have both been instructed to stay off of ladders & roofs.

Oh well waited too long.

[Frosty]

You don't want directions to where to learn what you want to know eh? Is your time is sooo much more valuable than ours then? What you are asking can't be answered how YOU want it answered, the answers are what they are. Take them or leave them, YOUR call.

However I'm a talky guy, like a challenge and have a little time to spend. Right now you have TWO major beginner problems. #1 You are dead set on building YOUR idea of the perfect equipment with no idea of what adequate is. We've all been there, I'd direct you to articles that do a wonderful job of explaining this human trait in lay psych terms but you don't want to be directed to educational reading. Your #2 problem is you have FAR TOO MUCH material to build with. And like the first problem, you don't have any idea of what it's for in conjunction to blacksmithing.

That's a nice picture of a brick coal forge and side draft hood. Why not copy it and build one? If you're building with brick forget all the castable refractories and furnace grout, it's USELESS, in fact a liability in that kind of forge.

Don't know how to build it? Home Depot, Lowes, etc. sells inexpensive books on doing your own masonry. Have a library card?

If you REALLY don't want to be directed to educational reading, please explain to us how you expect to LEARN from US. You still have to read the answers Why should ANY of us write them AGAIN?

I hate to break this to you but you're not special, every one of us had to start somewhere and I doubt very strongly many if any had all the . . . stuff you have to play with.

If you don't want me to recommend reading then please just ignore me.

Learn from our mistakes or have at it, just don't whine about uninformed questions not being answered to YOUR liking. Your call,

Frosty The Lucky.

[Bayshore Forge]

18 hours ago, Beatsy' s Forge said:

This is what I thought would be best for my smithy or at least something similar. I have pot dimensions and I think a side draft would be my best option size wise not huge but the one pictured is in my opinion perfect. What do you think about a brick table or castable I am unsure because bricks may shift or heave but castable may crack but can be patched pretty easily.

Beatsy,

I landed a volunteer position (ha ha) at a local recreation blacksmith shop that has a forge just about like this. It uses a large bellows on the far side for air instead of behind but otherwise it's almost the same thing. I'd be happy to take pictures and measurements if you wish. I'll be going there this Thursday. I may not be able to measure the firepot because it'll already be going when I arrive. It has a brick table though, and last I saw it it was not cracked at all. I'm pretty sure it has a clinker breaker and air gate out the side also. 

 

Best wishes,

Brent 

34 minutes ago, Frosty said:

You don't want directions to where to learn what you want to know eh? Is your time is sooo much more valuable than ours then? What you are asking can't be answered how YOU want it answered, the answers are what they are. Take them or leave them, YOUR call.

However I'm a talky guy, like a challenge and have a little time to spend. Right now you have TWO major beginner problems. #1 You are dead set on building YOUR idea of the perfect equipment with no idea of what adequate is. We've all been there, I'd direct you to articles that do a wonderful job of explaining this human trait in lay psych terms but you don't want to be directed to educational reading. Your #2 problem is you have FAR TOO MUCH material to build with. And like the first problem, you don't have any idea of what it's for in conjunction to blacksmithing.

That's a nice picture of a brick coal forge and side draft hood. Why not copy it and build one? If you're building with brick forget all the castable refractories and furnace grout, it's USELESS, in fact a liability in that kind of forge.

Don't know how to build it? Home Depot, Lowes, etc. sells inexpensive books on doing your own masonry. Have a library card?

If you REALLY don't want to be directed to educational reading, please explain to us how you expect to LEARN from US. You still have to read the answers Why should ANY of us write them AGAIN?

I hate to break this to you but you're not special, every one of us had to start somewhere and I doubt very strongly many if any had all the . . . stuff you have to play with.

If you don't want me to recommend reading then please just ignore me.

Learn from our mistakes or have at it, just don't whine about uninformed questions not being answered to YOUR liking. Your call,

Frosty The Lucky.

Frosty,

If you enjoy leading people to information, I'm here for the "leading"! I'll read just about anything. 

 

Brent 

[Kozzy]

Using a metaphor here...

There's a reason that most people will steer you away from a huge motorcycle for your first bike---and suggest that you get something lighter and drive it for a couple of years before eventually trading up for the nice bike you always wanted.  The decision has nothing to do with whether you can get an 1100 cheap or free.  Practice =Skills = knowledge= ability to make wiser choices.

Your second forge will be all that much better for spending a year or two with lesser, learning and understanding why you might want something different...or not.  Nothing stops you from dreaming about and planning the forge that'll make everyone envious while you are hammering away using something that's just adequate.

Was your first car a Mac Truck?

[Frosty]

3 hours ago, Bayshore Forge said:

Frosty,

If you enjoy leading people to information, I'm here for the "leading"! I'll read just about anything. 

 

Brent 

Ah you know the answer to that one already Brent, I wouldn't be here if I didn't like helping folk and learn as much or more by helping them. Sometimes I get more incensed by attitude than it's worth. My bad.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Beatsy' s Forge]

..I am willing to read anything and learn all but all I mean is there is a lot of information you have directed me to and lots of it is hard to determine what is being talked about with out pics.I was not being a smart ass when I said that I understand that people get tired of answering the same questions over and over again. Sorry if anyone took offense to it .Was not my intention. And to ad to a previous post I don't think I am better than any one and I think it is unfortunate of you to see fit to set judgment on me.So I will step back a little and read my eyes out so I know what I'm talking about. As far as the toys I have to play with I am greatful for all of it and would be willing to share any of it .Your rite I will start small and learn from reading and figure it out as I progress. Thanks for the advice .

3 hours ago, Bayshore Forge said:

Beatsy,

I landed a volunteer position (ha ha) at a local recreation blacksmith shop that has a forge just about like this. It uses a large bellows on the far side for air instead of behind but otherwise it's almost the same thing. I'd be happy to take pictures and measurements if you wish. I'll be going there this Thursday. I may not be able to measure the firepot because it'll already be going when I arrive. It has a brick table though, and last I saw it it was not cracked at all. I'm pretty sure it has a clinker breaker and air gate out the side also. 

 

Best wishes,

Brent 

Frosty,

If you enjoy leading people to information, I'm here for the "leading"! I'll read just about anything. 

 

Brent 

Brent It would be greatly appreciated for measuring the forge and any pictures if you can will be a plus. 

Thanks 

Brent it would be greatly appreciated for measuring the forge and any pictures if you can .

Thanks ,Martin 

[arkie]

Beatsy, I recommend you heed Frosty's suggestions.

After reading the above posts I have come to the conclusion that you should jump in and build a large brick forge as you have drawn, thereby satisfying your impulsiveness and use it to determine, by the experience gained using that forge, if that is what you really need to smith.  If not, tear it down or modify it to suit your needs as you progress.  If it suits your needs continue to use it as-is and enjoy smithing as long as you desire.  Probably, the majority of blacksmiths have built their first forge thinking that "this is all I'll ever need" and soon find themselves realizing that they are better suited to a different size or design.  That is a valuable lesson and great experience...tweaking or fine-tuning the smithing experience.  I have been using my first forge for about 3 years and now find what I "really" desire for forging is somewhat larger and different.  I just fabbed my second hood, as the first was insufficient.  Work your way into smithing and gain from the experience.  

[Beatsy' s Forge]

Thanks arkie I agree with your comment and will take that advice,I will build and Thank you for you comment I am not quite set on a size but I know I want it large enough to heat about 10in.of steel for the time being, I don't have a power hammer so I think a hot pot 10inx12inx3.75 will be a just size for quite some time. Again thanks. 

[Frosty]

Okay, fair enough. Which post missing pics would you like to ask a question about? A only way to get specific answers is to ask specific questions and linking THE post you don't understand is NOT cheating. I've made more than 20k posts to Iforge and if dissing someone was my thing I'd be 86ed and unlamented.

Let's take a little step back and define just what a forge is. At it's most elemental it's a fire place, holds a fire. Period, nothing fancier need apply. A hole in the ground, a piece of bamboo some mud to make the fire nozzle and a paper bag is a forge.That beautiful brick shop forge is just a hole elevated to a more comfortable position to work from with the added delight of a way to get the smoke out of your eyes.

When you see a photo of a forge like that you don't need a dimensioned drawing, all you need to know is a Brick is 2 1/4" x 4 1/2" x 9". From that you can determine every single dimension you need to build the pictured forge, even determine how thick the mortar is.

Here's a bit of advise that will stand you in good stead for the rest of your life. "Don't get in a rush." The worst mistakes I've made in my life occurred when I was either mad or in a hurry. Complacency is a killer too, my Father used to say, "Familiarity breeds contempt," so often I got sick of hearing it. True words though worth repeating till the listener is well and truly sickened.

Depending on what the refractory is it's probably good trading stock with your local blacksmithing organization. Go to meetings, meet the guys and gals, its a great bunch and they'll put you in touch with more useful equipment, tools and information than you'll believe. Just don't introduce yourself as having tons of masonry, refractories, etc. right off. relax talk and let it come up.

That's why we have clubs you know, spread the knowledge and craft so we have playmates. Relax and have fun. Safety FIRST, then FUN, everything else are just extras.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[ThomasPowers]

IIRC there's a fellow over in Ohio that's been building brick forges that seem to be nice enough that folks keep asking him to build them one.  I can try to contact some of the old MOBsters and see if they have contact info.  If he's willing to talk with you that would probably answer your questions.

I will say I wouldn't hard set the top layer of refractory brick for the table to make it easier to repair and replace (and deal with expansion and contraction issues).  Setting them in fireclay would probably work just fine.

[Beatsy' s Forge]

Thanks Frosty, 

     Let's forget about pictures for now. Although I seem like I am more in a rush I assure you that I am not just making an attempt to get my information together and have a basic understanding of the scope of my project.I am going to build a permanent forge and with some help I can pursue the project with a clear path. I have a pretty good idea on how much I want to build just trying to iron out a few okay alot of details. Before I ask for any more help /questions I will be on point with my inquiry. So it appears that I have lots more to research than I originally thought. I am not the type of person that when meeting people for the first time like you said don't start the conversation with the supplies I have to work with I will just introduce myself and wait for the time to interject the conversation with my supplies. I only gave a detailed list of the material so all would know what I had to work with and give them the opportunity to assist in how they my change what I have drawn or give me a better idea. I was in no way bragging on the materials. So again thanks for your comment and let's start over.My name is Martin I am extremely interested in Blacksmithing and would like some advice on how to diy an indoor coal forge. If you had the free materials I have how would you use them ? This is an artform that I am certain that I will have success in some day and how ever it appears I would like to build a smithy that I will utilize every day and not have an issue for some time on if I need a different setup. So let's let you direct me to something that is of value, not saying you didn't do that before but I was wrong for not hearing the help I was offered. I like I said have this stuff and how would someone of your caliber utilize it for your idea of the perfect forge?Another thing that comes to mind is has any of you seen or built a forge that can be accessed from both indoors and outdoors for hot weather applications. So you have the option to work outside if you wanted I haven't seen  anything like that but if I thought of it,it must be out there.So I will see if I can find  anything on it.

                      Sincerely, Martin