ThomasPowers Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Moxon's "Mechanicks Exercises" has a masonry forge shown in it---if you get the complete volume and not just the subset on printing. Diderot's Encyclopedia has a bunch of masonry forges depicted in it; again the full version rather than the more common subsets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatsy' s Forge Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 Thanks Thomas I wish give it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Those are both historical examples, Moxon was published in 1703 and Diderot's encyclopedia was the end of the 18th century it's one of the "gems of the enlightenment" . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Glad to meet you Martin, call me Frosty or Jerry. Were good smithing coal available I probably wouldn't build a masonry forge for a couple reasons. First I was a welder fabricator so fabbing up a coal forge is an afternoon's work from start to first fire. Even having no good coal I have 4 coal forges, one Buffalo rivet forge with crank blower, one 12v. farrier's coal forge, one side draft I made from a 55gl drum, similar to the 55 forge but so long ago I'm not sure when I built it. and lastly my "custom" made coal forge, 36" x 48" fire brick table, duck's nest electrically blown. I spent a long afternoon building that one not counting drawings and scrounging materials. when I worked for DOT Highways maintenance we were always having to pick up stuff that'd fallen off trucks, trailers, some indescribably NASTY like maggoty rotting moose carcasses up to some really good stuff like 15 sheets of 1/2" sheet rock. And as relates to this post a pallet worth of bricks. That's where I identified with you instantly, I HAVE a pallet of red brick and another also scrounged of fire brick. I was planning my masonry forge while hauling the last load home from work. There's no inherent superiority in a masonry forge no matter what anybody says. Well, okay MAYBE in tornado country but . . . It's a fire place that's all. Nothing wrong with having good looking tools and equipment, I paint my equipment shop colors and tools to ID. But there's a perspective to consider, what do you want most? Show shop or working shop? No, it's not an either or situation but the balance will tip one way or the other. for the time and effort a person would put in on building the masonry forge I have the bricks and room for I could drive to the mid west and buy a truck load of coal. I could have more shipped up for less. Either way the nicest forge in the Valley isn't much good without good coal or setting up a charcoal retort. Now THERE'S a job of work! What I discovered after buying, building and using the coal forges I have is the smallest one showed me everything I needed to know IF I'd paid attention. good coal is HARD and expensive to acquire here. I didn't need the other 3 forges. That's the basis for all the advice for starting with something small and functional to learn the craft and build skills. You may be in LOVE with blacksmithing now but after practicing it for a while discover it ain't your cup of soup. Things change. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatsy' s Forge Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 Yeah I get it ,you are probably right, but did you not build brick because of the time compared to fabing one or did you decide that it was not necessary even that you had the brick? Now my question is did you have the brick before your first forge? But nice tools are great but I am more into functionality and quality over the way something appears. Could be the nicest looking thing in the world but it is still a terd ya know Screw it I don't have any way to weld anything right now but some day .Your rite fabing something is faster sometimes Mabe even better.Frik it I am just gonna use this old wet bar stainless sink put some brick in it and light some coal on fire ,heat some steel and beat on this honk of rail I found a while back.my wife is right ever since I have become clean I go from one addiction too another taking to dam limit. Who am I kidding anyway I don't even have an anvil persay and by the way the prices keep going up I probably never will . Thanks Scape that idea . Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I have over 1000 solid clay brick that I could easily use to build a forge with and hung around brick masons enough to know how to lay them. I even know how to build a decent chimney (which btw is going to be the hardest part of building of building any kind of masonry fireplace). Even knowing all this and having seen several different layouts for masonry forges I still haven't built one simply because, as I stated before, I want to make sure to fine tune my system to the point I know how it'll function without a doubt in my mind. Some days my current setup runs perfect and some days it doesn't so I have to make fiddly adjustments to figure out what's wrong. At this point you need to either start building it and figure out your mistakes as you find them or take a step back and read through some of those old books that discuss masonry forges. I personally will not be trying to help anymore since it seems to me like talking to a brick wall unless you ask me directly for something in which case I'll do what I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatsy' s Forge Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 I will be adjusting my intention and doing quite a bit more investigating before I build with brick. I like your have lots of experience with masonry only my education is from blast furnace, reheat furnaces,and steel making furnaces. I was a former and prior to that was a laborer /mason tender so I am also fermilur with this type of work ,not only is the chimney the toughest part it is the most exciting. But for now I am abandoning my dream and making changes so I can get started smithing and my learning process. Thanks,Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatsy' s Forge Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Michael did you read my post to Frosty? I agree ,I need to step back and do a lot more research. If you think I'm like talking to a brick wall then you need better reading glasses.I am taking your guys advice and redirecting it to just start something so I can begin the life long learning process and yes I am aware it is gonna take lots of research so I'm ready for that .So I guess if I have any real questions for you or questions that you feel are admirable for you to answer, I will ask try to ask them with some thing knowledgeable so we know what I am talking about.Not trying to sound insulting it is not my intention just saying I'm gonna go back to the chock board and regroup so to speak and start something so I can begin learning and figuring out them mistakes that you talk about .So thanks for the help and getting me back on track . Thanks, Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Well, my advice would be to build an experimental forge first. So you can deside if you like the classic side blast (and how big a tuyere) or a bottom blast (and how deep and wide) this will help you when you start your brick forge, as you will have the working parts sorted out. I love the looks of brick forges, Steve Sells build a nice bottom blast that is adaptable to make long fires (he forges swords) and of orde the old timers (and Europeans) used side blast (my preference) this is part of the "once and done" idea. And one more note "hard brick" goes with cement mortar and "soft brick" goes with lime mortar. Cement mortar will destroy soft brick, that's why we now use hard brick. You will find 32x32 to be a pretty average size for the box of ash and clinker in side blast or duck's nest (a type of bottom blast) a 32x32 brick table beside it wasn't uncommon for holding tools and parts either. I like the romance of a brick forge, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatsy' s Forge Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 That's the plan experimental, my boy and I are leaving to go to the scrap yard as we speak so I should be able to put something together soon. Thanks Charles Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatsy' s Forge Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Here's what we came up with what do you all think? It is about 14 in . diameter and I miss thinking of cutting it down. Or should I bring the size down with the refractory I have? Couple other things that need to be done and it can get its first heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 It's difficult to manage the fuel pile with our dropping hot embers off the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatsy' s Forge Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Yeah I will probably use a castable table cause that's what I have available or try and find a piece of .5 in plate for it but if I want to get started castable will be faster than the search for a plate and besides the castable is free. So I have to make a decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 The shop I work at and the bellows/stone and brick forge. It works ok. The guy who built the chimney needs to be shot and hung. I redesigned the tuyere myself and she works much better with big holes as opposed to many small ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Martin: I acquired the brick after making the fabbed forge and it wasn't long after I discovered I didn't know which seam to dig for the good coal and I'm not going to go to the trouble of mapping, sampling, logging and testing to find the good stuff. Even if I had good coal in easy reach I'd stick with the fabbed forge, masonry is too hard to move if I want to rearrange the shop. A stove pipe stack isn't near the anchor a masonry anything is. I can always pull a stove pipe and patch the roof if I need to move it. Oh NOOOOO NOT the wheel or semi brake drum forge! Unless you're in love with the idea of casting or troweling mud to make something workable throw it back. A sheet metal table, even an old top load washing machine with the lid flipped upside down works fine. Make a hole JUST large enough the center of a brake rotor to slips through and pack the rest of the table with damp sandy clay even with the disk and you're ready to go. A floor flange that covers the lug pattern and some threaded pipe makes your tuyere, a bolt or two attaches it to the fire pot. The fire grate can be as simple as some 1/2" Rd bar with say around 3/8" - 1/2" space between and you have an excellent air grate. Rows of slots are very easy to keep clean compared to holes. Heck I recall seeing someone laying 1/2" bolts with the heads facing alternating directions till they pack the hub for an air grate. Remember it's EASY to make the fire "pot" deeper by stacking brick around the existing one but it's a serious PITA trying to make one shallower or smaller. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatsy' s Forge Posted July 14, 2016 Author Share Posted July 14, 2016 Thanks Frosty I will be messing around with it today if will post updates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayshore Forge Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Heres a pic of the forge I promised, didn't get around to measurements, I will try next week. One thing I'd mention is there's not a overhang of sorts and it works very well. One negative is the bellows is on the far side and in the way of the smith working the opposite side, designer should have put it off the back instead. I also found it hard to get the piece laying horizontal in the fire. Not quite sure what could have been done to remedy this. Brent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Beautiful forge. The measurements are right in front of our faces, a brick is 2 1/4" x 4 1/2" x 9" mortar should be around 1/4" thick. The table is too high, the fire pot is too deep or perhaps the air grate disperses the air too much to the sides. If it has a clinker breaker try different positions. A temporary solution is to pile the fuel deeper and turn the air down. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatsy' s Forge Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Thanks guys,and yes Frosty the measurements are there and the table is to high,to solve the issue with the stock the whole table appears flat all the way around the fire pot I would have reseed the pot my best a half brick and all the way across the tables width .that would solve the placement issues, as far as the depth and width I would start with 10inx12x3.75indeep with the sides sloping to the clinker/other.Ithink that may work a little bit better. I'm still collecting the brick and slowed my roll a little to investigate and plan a bit more .Frosty is right on perfect placement if there is such a thing but permanent forge is definitely in your future. Thanks for the pictures Bayshore no need for measuring got it in the pic Thank you all for the help in making a decision and a future dream possible. Now with more planning it will happen someday in my future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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