Joel OF Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I very recently got a 25kg Anyang power hammer and plan to pursure my sculptural interests more now that my ideas are actually feasible. This is the first proper thing I've made under it using solely V tapered cross pein dies which were most effective at spreading. Forged from 1 piece of 30mm x 20mm flat bar, I deliberately didn't planish the hammer marks. The pictures don't really give a good sense of proportions but hey ho. Finished in a graphite based polish then burnished to highlight. Completely new to power hammers so looking forward to getting better at using it & making some tooling/dies to go with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Oh you ARE having a GOOD time with it aren't you Joel? That came out very nice, proportions are good, graceful except a couple sharp square features for contrast. I like it a lot, I don't know if planishing would've improved it that much. Knock off a couple of the kind of buggery spits with a file or a touch with a hand hammer and it's good to go. If you think that was fun wait till you start getting the feel of it. You're already good with a hammer, you'll master a power hammer so fast it'll make your head spin. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 Cheers. The pics seem to make the edges look more aggressive/sharper than they are in real life. I did my typical thing of softening the corners with a twisted wire wheel on my 4 1/2" grinder so there's no nasties. One of my scarier experiences with a grinder as somehow a towel that was on the bench about 2 feet away managed to get sucked in to the grinder and get tied up in the wire wheel. That kicked the grinder out of my hand, hit my arm then fell on the floor still spinning tieing up the power cable and towel, all in the space of a split second. I have a love/hate relationship with wire wheels - evil tools but really useful. Arm and grinder still functioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I could see you'd deburred it or I would've said something about slicey pokey things on work people are going to want to handle. Good job there. Have you ever hot filed? Taking an old horse shoe rasp or just a wood rasp to red hot steel does a LOT of stock removal quickly and files don't scare me like spinning wire brushes. Right angle grinders regardless of size or use are DANGEROUS tools! Want to swap scary stories? I've had 2 adventures with a 9" Milwaukee disk grinder that really stand out. One for the blood shed and pain. The other for the joyously funny visual memory of an oh so much smarter than a mere . . . "LABORER" mid level management type dancing around the shop floor trying to get away from a 9", heck the SAME 9" Milwaukee disk grinder. Funny how the most useful tools are the scariest. You should spend some time on a rotary soil sampling drill rig, they're painfully loud just to be around when they're running. Good job on the candle holder. Have fun with your power hammer and yes BE CAREFUL. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Wow, Joel! This is exactly one of those kinds of things which buzz in my head and want to get out... Not the same object of course but the whole shaping and structuring in it. So I mean: good job - I like it very much, more precisely I like the one with the steel bowl in it very much. The copper has its own beauties and makes a pretty piece, too - still I like the other one better. Keep on the good work! Man, I bet you're gonna make more beautiful things soon! (Judging by your earlier works) Bests Gergely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Hey, nice work Joel. So you are happy with the Anyang? Is it performing as expected? Any hassles? I have toyed with the idea of getting one for some time but don't know if I can justify the expense for the sort of work I do. But then, it could expand my range of products I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Cheers. Pics of power hammer forging No.2 attached, both of them I just made up as I went along really. Both forged from 20 x 30mm flat, just wanted to test the cross pein dies it came with really. Yep happy with the hammer though haven't had much time to play on it unfortunately. Attempting to tag Mr Evans who might know the answer to my question...@Alan Evans Finished these with thinned down graphite paste, burnished them up then 2 coats of Renaissance wax but found some small rust spots after a few days?!?!?!?! Haven't been handled with wet hands. Completely baffled. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 really nice work Joel, enjoy that hammer!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 On 30 June 2016 at 6:27 PM, Joel OF said: Cheers. Pics of power hammer forging No.2 attached, both of them I just made up as I went along really. Both forged from 20 x 30mm flat, just wanted to test the cross pein dies it came with really. Yep happy with the hammer though haven't had much time to play on it unfortunately. Attempting to tag Mr Evans who might know the answer to my question...@Alan Evans Finished these with thinned down graphite paste, burnished them up then 2 coats of Renaissance wax but found some small rust spots after a few days?!?!?!?! Haven't been handled with wet hands. Completely baffled. Any ideas? Good fun Joel you are up and running with the hammer...well done, good work. I can see the fun you had. I recognise the enthusiasm from my first forays! Re the rust spots. What was the humidity? Two possible points on timing. How long after burnishing before the graphite paste and Renaissance wax? Damp atmosphere it needs to be instant. I have never put two coats of Renaissance wax on. The white spirit in the second will dissolve the first so it won't actually add anything. More importantly if you burnish it up immediately after application you are may be likely to wipe it off perhaps...I put it on thin, leave it to evaporate off the white spirit and then burnish it up. When I say thin, I mean very thin. I make it up with a lot of white spirit so I can put it on with a paint brush. I would cut Picreator's Renaissance wax with maybe twice the volume of white spirit, maybe more...it will almost pour, sometimes does. Struggling a bit with the rust spots I have to say...another couple of thoughts how thoroughly did you burnish it? Had you quenched it after forging? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hay River Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Awesome job Joel. Do you have any pictures of the candle cup? Specifically the bottom and back side. I'm interested in how its wrapped and or put together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 On 09/07/2016 at 9:32 PM, Alan Evans said: Re the rust spots. What was the humidity? Two possible points on timing. How long after burnishing before the graphite paste and Renaissance wax? Damp atmosphere it needs to be instant. I have never put two coats of Renaissance wax on. The white spirit in the second will dissolve the first so it won't actually add anything. More importantly if you burnish it up immediately after application you are may be likely to wipe it off perhaps...I put it on thin, leave it to evaporate off the white spirit and then burnish it up. Struggling a bit with the rust spots I have to say...another couple of thoughts how thoroughly did you burnish it? Had you quenched it after forging? Sorry for the delayed reply, I didn't see the notification that you had replied. The humidity in my workshop is fine. After burnishing my work I immediately clean it with meths to get any residual gunk off, then wipe it down to dry/clean that off, then immediately put the graphite on. Top coat wax goes on immediately after burnishing. I'm conscious/cautious of leaving bare steel open to the elements, and even put on latex gloves so my sweat doesn't get on the item. I cheekily emailed Peter Parkinson to ask him some more detail on his pickeling - graphite - Renaissance Wax process mentioned in his books/old BABA issue and he recommended two coats of R'Wax, also mentioning that it's what armour musuems do, but like you I also thought that the white spirit in the 2nd coat would eat through the first. Any advice I could find on R'Wax said to burnish immediately after putting it on, but that to mee seemed a bit too soon so I was leaving it about 20 seconds for it to dry up a bit, then burnish it. Does that sound too soon? To be honest I've found graphite paste to be such a pain in the backside with continuously coming off when burnished, (even if only a thin coat was applied), that I'm tempted not to use it anymore. I found that watered down Rustins Satin Black paint for wood and metal gives exactly the same look as burnished graphite paste if you paint it on then "burnish" it whilst it's still wet to get off the excess and dry it up. Not ideal as it's water based but I bought my most macho of tools for the workshop the other day...a hair dryer...so I can dry it immediately 100%. (Or I could just find a non water based satin black that looks good). Then you can put a coat of wax over the top of that and it comes out to my eye looking exactly the same. Then you haven't got to wait ages for the graphite to dry. On 10/07/2016 at 2:49 PM, Hay River said: Awesome job Joel. Do you have any pictures of the candle cup? Specifically the bottom and back side. I'm interested in how its wrapped and or put together. Thanks. No I don't I'm afriad. the back of that tail thing on the candle cup was a flat straight end that didn't taper down any further than what you can see. It finished a small distance further on that the rivet. The bottom of the cup is a disc placed carefully in to line up with the bottom edge of the wrap around bit, then I welded it in position all around the circumferance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I have used three graphite based finishes. Zebrite which was in a small toothpaste tube and made by Reckit and Coleman. I thinned that down with white spirit so it could be painted on like water colour. I found that any wax on top flattened the burnished highlight effect of the graphite almost completely. Good for things like fire grates which were basically in the dry and not being handled. Different name now. Stovax brand? For fire tools and things like candlesticks I tend to just shotblast and rotary wire brush burnish and use Renaissance wax. For some architectural things, indoors...even some handrails, I would shot blast wire brush burnish and spray with PA21 Graphite Modified Etch Primer by Strathclyde. It was developed for the Nuclear industry and used to prevent corrosion for the period between fabrication and commissioning the reactor. The material just produced carbon when it was heated so there were no fumes or contamination. It was incredibly tough, so much so that you could burnish it with a cup brush in an angle grinder. I would then give it a coat of wax. It would not come off on the hands or light clothes so was a good interior finish. Then for external stuff burnished graphite mixed in the eggshell paint on a zinc sprayed and etch primed substrate. Is the graphite paste you are using the one by Liberon? I have a tin but did not have much joy with it. The original point is that it can only rust if air and moisture can get at it. Have you been using any spray silicone lubricant in the shop? It is impossible to remove and will make any paint/finish orange peel. It should however be able to protect steel from corrosion itself, but it may be a factor. How soon after the waxing did the rust spots occur? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Very beautiful designs Joel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 9 hours ago, Alan Evans said: Is the graphite paste you are using the one by Liberon? I have a tin but did not have much joy with it. The original point is that it can only rust if air and moisture can get at it. Have you been using any spray silicone lubricant in the shop? It is impossible to remove and will make any paint/finish orange peel. It should however be able to protect steel from corrosion itself, but it may be a factor. How soon after the waxing did the rust spots occur? Alan Yeah Liberon Iron Paste is the main one I'd been using. I did also pick up a tube of Stovax(?) (yellow and black tube from memory) but wasn't so keen as it was black like boot polish and didn't seem to have that same grey lustre. And it was water based. Nope no lubricants. Well I took 3 items to a gallery (including the bowl below) and left them there for a long weekend for them to have a think if they were right for the gallery, things didn't work out so I collected them after about 4 or 5 days, and that's when I noticed some small rust spots developing. All the rust spots were on the bare steel surfaces where there was absolutely no mill or forge scale, (e.g on the lip of the bowl) so I just came away thinking that the wax can't "key" onto the bare steel surfaces so well. I just don't understand it T.B.H and have tried to put it down to freak bad luck because folks like you and Peter have been using it without incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Well I can think of a number of points arising... You don't know what went on in the gallery, maybe it got spattered by something. Detergent, solvent, oil, vinegar, potted plant food, spit, air freshener... If it has a smooth polished surface, it is very easy to wipe virtually all the protective finish off. Stovax may not be an equivalent of Zebrite, maybe the solvent base was the reason they stopped making it. But both Peter and I have used different colours of shoe polish to finish forgework. Sometimes with a coat of Renaissance on top sometimes not. Again if it was in cake form I would often thin it down with white spirit. but it can be applied by dry brush just like on shoes. Depends on the object As for "without incident"...I can't speak for Peter but I certainly reckon it is not a maintenance free finish. Too many variables. I have had rust bloom on some items but have always been able to attribute a likely reason, and either just rewaxed or reburnished as required. Renaissance (or bees wax melted) on are great for things like fire tools which are likely to bash against each other and the grate when in use. The good thing about the wax finish is that it grows old gracefully. You can preserve a glitzy finish with a lacquer...for a while. But when the lacquer gets chipped you have a strong visual contrast between the protected areas and the oxidising unprotected ones. The wax finish, depending on usage and maintenance regime, allows the piece to develop an all-over but variable patina (dirt!) which is to my mind better than the harshly different good-and-bad bits of aged lacquer. The wax, if abraded, has a certain degree of self-repair creep if its lubricant qualities did not prevent the abrading object from scraping it off. Not so lacquer. For stuff going out to galleries and to the craft exhibitions (where I always had a notice on the table saying "Please Touch"...I wanted people to feel the balance of the tools) I used Cannings Ercalene S which is an almost invisible Nitro Cellulose lacquer used in the Birmingham brass trade amongst others, but then add Renaissance wax on top. In the purchasers final use the wax could be just topped up occasionally, but no corrosive finger oils and contaminants of Joe Public tarnished the finish. In the topping up process the white spirit in the Renaissance wax softens and dissolves the previous layer and releases any dirt held in it...which is why I only gave one coat initially. Oh...almost forgot...I always told the customer to apply the wax with fine scotchbrite or wire wool which would take off the lacquer (and any rust bloom/spots) and prevent the unsightly contrasts. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 8 hours ago, Alan Evans said: You don't know what went on in the gallery, maybe it got spattered by something. Detergent, solvent, oil, vinegar, potted plant food, spit, air freshener... Probably all at once from being put next to some kind of nonsensical modern art installation. If memory serves correct the woman in the shop I got the Stovax from said Zeebrite was discontinued because it had lead in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 On 10/07/2016 at 2:49 PM, Hay River said: Awesome job Joel. Do you have any pictures of the candle cup? Specifically the bottom and back side. I'm interested in how its wrapped and or put together. I went and took some pics today of these items on display in the shop I've taken them to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hay River Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Awesome thanks. It helped me get my head around it. Looks great from that side too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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