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Struggling with tomahawks


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Hello,

  These are some of my first tomahawk attempts.  I keep having a recurring problem, which is the eyes keep cracking.  I have been drifting the eyes early in the process, but now i am realizing, is it better to drift the eyes later in the forging process, thereby reducing eye damage during forging?  Also, i am welcome to any and all advice that might help me along my way to producing a serviceable hawk.  Thank you.

 

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Looks like the edges are to sharp on your drift round the edges a good bit but you can still keep it rectangular overall. Post a picture of the punch you used also if it is different.  You make have wanted to let the checks of the eye pert rude instead of keeping them even with the rest of the spike. 

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Here is a picture of the two tools that i used...Also, perhaps i did not make myself clear: the cracks did not happen while i was drifting the eyes.  I noticed them later on after i had been forging the rest of the tomahawk.  For that reason, i am wondering if it is better to do as much forging as possible of the Hawk, and then drift the eye as late as possible in the forgingIMAG1244.thumb.jpg.d08292bad50823a7b8087 process?

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sharp edges produce stress risers. meaning that its an area that is very likely to crack or give you issues.  Your drift looks like the edges are too sharp. just because you didnt notice the cracks earlier dosnt mean that they werent destined to happen.You are heading in the right direction. i'm not experienced enough but i will say that i think the drift needs rounded edges.  also what heat are you drifting at? you should keep it HOT. order of things i'm not sure but i know in making hammers we were punching and drifting the eye first. 

 these questions are to help you help others give you advise. Thanks for sharing the punch and drift. someone here should have good advise for you.

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Actually Navasky, i was doing just that on my latest attempt.  I ran out of rr spikes, so i used a piece of 3/4 tool steel.  After upsetting the piece to 4" (from 6.5") i punched and drifted the eye.  Later as i was working on the body of the hawk, i started quenching the lower part of the hawk where the eye was located, under the belief that if i kept it cooler, it would not split or crack. 

 Unfortunately it did just that! 

 

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1 hour ago, Anthony Karakas said:

Actually Navasky, i was doing just that on my latest attempt.  I ran out of rr spikes, so i used a piece of 3/4 tool steel.  After upsetting the piece to 4" (from 6.5") i punched and drifted the eye.  Later as i was working on the body of the hawk, i started quenching the lower part of the hawk where the eye was located, under the belief that if i kept it cooler, it would not split or crack. 

 Unfortunately it did just that! 

 

Unfortunately that is almost completely backwards of what you should be doing.  Many smiths who work exclusively with tool steel (bladesmiths) don't even have a slack bucket in their shops to avoid this temptation.  Water quenching tool steel, particularly with strong variations in crossection is a recipe for cracks and surface microfractures.  There are some tool steels and situations where water quenching is a prudent option, but with the steel you probably have and the work you are doing it is highly unlikely.

As others have already stated, slitting and drifting should be done quite hot (I don't bother drifting unless the stock is in the orange/yellow range, too much work otherwise.  If it gets below cherry red you are asking for trouble, and remember the side in contact with the anvil will cool faster).  Also you can try to forge down the sides of your blank around the drift on the anvil a bit rather than just forcing the drift through.  This will raise cheeks on the side of the hawk around the opening, but these can either be a design element, or forged out as well. 

Rounding corners of your drift will also help.  I like the traditional teardrop crossection for hawks, but many different styles have been made historically.

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Drifting must be done when the metal is at it's softest.  For me that's almost to welding heat.  Also I look at the area around the eye while I'm driving the drift.  Watch for the area in contact with the drift when it cools stop hitting.  I usually get 5 or 6 good hits before the metal is too hard.  Hard Metal cracks soft Metal shapes more easily.  Practice practice you will get the feel for it.

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On 5/13/2016 at 4:55 PM, latticino said:

 Ok thank you Homeshow! 

Unfortunately that is almost completely backwards of what you should be doing.  Many smiths who work exclusively with tool steel (bladesmiths) don't even have a slack bucket in their shops to avoid this temptation.  Water quenching tool steel, particularly with strong variations in crossection is a recipe for cracks and surface microfractures.  There are some tool steels and situations where water quenching is a prudent option, but with the steel you probably have and the work you are doing it is highly unlikely.

As others have already stated, slitting and drifting should be done quite hot (I don't bother drifting unless the stock is in the orange/yellow range, too much work otherwise.  If it gets below cherry red you are asking for trouble, and remember the side in contact with the anvil will cool faster).  Also you can try to forge down the sides of your blank around the drift on the anvil a bit rather than just forcing the drift through.  This will raise cheeks on the side of the hawk around the opening, but these can either be a design element, or forged out as well. 

Rounding corners of your drift will also help.  I like the traditional teardrop crossection for hawks, but many different styles have been made historically.

 

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I find that when drifting open the eyes on RR spikes for hawks, there are two important factors: Temperature and making sure your first punch or slit is center. For hawks made of a RR spike, I upset the spike end to approx. 3/4 in, then I slit my eye where I want it. If your eye isn't hot enough when drifting you're going to blow out the lug every time. Get a good hot heat and work it till it starts to get an orange then put it back in the fire. Better safe than sorry. In terms of making your eye center on your material, if you are too far to either side, when you start drifting one side will be thinner and you could end up blowing out that side as well. 

I fried probably 10-15 spikes by cracking the eye before I realized I have to keep it hot and have my center punches right. Also, might help using a different drift. From the research I've done and experience, when doing a drifted eye type of axe, be it RR spike, or mild with a welded bit, you don't want any sharp corners in the eye of the ax. James Austin states in his "Forging a Viking Broad Axe" DVD that you don't want any hard or sharp angles inside they eye. I'd hit Kayne & Son's website, pick up a 15 dollar tomahawk drift or mouse hawk drift and use those. They're tear drop shaped. That way you can just plug a handle in and go once you're complete. 

Also, in terms of getting the crack after drifting and during shaping, if you forge out your shape then decide to punch/slit/drift your eye, it's hard to get a good position over the hardy to punch/slit/drift through once you've forged your shape. If you do it prior to forging, it's still relatively square and sits on the anvil and over the hardly relatively easy still. Also, in my opinion (we all know what opinions are like, an orifice that stinks and we've all got 'em) drifting your eye to a near completed shape and size before lets you utilize the rest of the material more and in a better way, and you can move that metal to where you need it, working your final shape from the stock near the eye out towards the bit of the blade. Whereas punching after, you could have more material than anticipated, or not enough for the transition from the eye to the blade of the axe.

Sorry to ramble a bit, I hope this helps. 

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After rounding over the edges of my punch and drift, and making sure that i only worked the steel in the orange and above range, i am happy to report that this eye did not crack!  Unfortunately i was not perfectly center (although it certainly seemed so when i started punching). 

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  • 3 years later...

It was a common practice to pack the open eye with steel wool, iron shavings or clay before any operation that required a quench.  The walls of the eye, being thin, are prone to shrinkage cracks when they she'd heat more rapidly than the body of the tool.  Some Smith's went so far as to wrap leather around the eye after first packing it.

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Welcome aboard Armand... Have you read this yet?  READ THIS FIRST   It will help in getting the best out of the forum with tips like editing your profile to show your location because so many answers require knowing where in the world you are located. There are many other tips some will help staying off the moderators radar.:)

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