PM Smelting from catalytic converters

[blackwolf365]

I've been wondering what would happen if I were to have, for example, a 5gal. bucket full OK the honeycomb from catalytic converters that has been crushed and ground to the consistency of face powder and were to heat it to the melting point if the ceramic materials.  Would the PMs therein just sink to the bottom if the crucible I would be using?

[ThomasPowers]

Smelting is taking ore either oxide, sulphide, etc and making metal from it.  Your description does not sound like smelting.  note that the temps involved in what you are talking about will probably need to be high enough that the cost will exceed the output on a small scale.  What are you trying to accomplish?

[the iron dwarf]

trying to get the microscopic amount of platinum from the powder I think.

cost of a crucible suitable for platinum melting point?

cost of fuel?

no it will not be likely to sink to the bottom and a bucketful would probably not get you enough to see with the naked eye if you got 100% of it into a single blob of very impure metal

I think you would be lucky to get a 1% return on the costs even dealing with 10 times the quantity

[ThomasPowers]

If you think to try to sell the recovered metal; well a business will require a assay on each "blob".  One of the reasons that things like commercial  silver and gold ingots sell for more than random scrap.  They are of a known and accepted purity.

[blackwolf365]

I am trying to figure out, if possible, a more expedient way of extracting the precious metals from the honeycomb.  I do intend on selling said metals but not until further refining is done to increase the purity to at least the international standard of bullion purity.  I'm hopping to find a way to accomplish this with minimum use of caustic/toxic chemicals so that she time comes to properly dispose of my spent/contaminated materials, I won't have to have as much expense to do so.

[ThomasPowers]

separating metals from other things always brings electrolytic methods to mind but dissolving platinum would probably call for more chemical work than you might like.  Have you investigated that route anyway?

[Kozzy]

A quick internet search shows that the process used is chemical and not simple--lots of nasty compounds used at specific pressures and temperatures to actually get platinum rather than a sloppy mix of tainted stuff which has little value added because it has to be re-refined from scratch anyway.  Platinum is highly reactive...which is why it's used with palladium in cats in the first place--so getting it back out of the soup aint easy.

Nothing wrong with experimenting but don't bet the farm on the results.

 

[Frosty]

Not that  melting will do a LOT of good but you might be able to using an induction melter and not break the bank for fuel, furnace materials and such.

Frosty The Lucky.

[blackwolf365]

On 4/4/2016 at 4:23 PM, Kozzy said:

A quick internet search shows that the process used is chemical and not simple

I have investigated that option already.  Aqua Regia seems to be the way to go.  Save for the rhodium that is.  All of the research I have done up to this point says that Aqua Regia won't dissolve the rhodium, so a stronger chemical method is needed for it

 

[Charlotte]

Btw,  how many years of chemistry do you have at the college level?  Have you considered the problem of waste disposal?   Have you acquired information on the total grams of the metals in each model of converter. 

You do realize that the cost of converter is mostly in the creation not in the materials?

Reminds me to the time that a gold dealer friend of mine wanted to set up a refining operation to recover value from his pawn shop ( run under a different name).   After he ran the numbers and calculated the require volume and payback time he decided he was still better off vending it off to a wholesaler.  BTW  before you ask The same guy started dealing postage stamps and silver coins in a retail store and finished with a personal fortune of over 1 mill (business included)

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

The scrap value of converters has dropped waaaaaay down from just a couple of years ago. That tells me that the amount of platinum is quite small in each convertor. To make any go of this you will have to process literal tons of convertors. If it was cheap and easy to do the big outfits would be doing it.  We poured 55 gallon drums of catalytic beads into the converter at Jelly Belly. IIRC each drum was $10,000, but you would have to invest far more to recover half that amount. 

I would go the easy route, collect the convertors in bulk, and see if you can negotiate a better price for having a larger quantity, or bypass the middleman and go direct to the refiners.

[blackwolf365]

I actually have a specific plan layed out for all if this.  I won't be so foolish as to exclusevly do only catalytics. That would, in my opinion, be obsurdley foolish. There are more than just PMs to be scrapped for. Copper, for example, is a metal that is much more available. Aluminum is another.  These may be far less valued, but they are much more available. They, combined with mybpersonasl investment strategy and a steady source if income, should provide for the eventual expansion to the more valuable metals.  I'm not some srarry-eyed dreamer here.  I know quite well that the return cash easily be outweighed by the expense.  That's one reasdon I'm doing so much research and why I'll be depending more on the lower valued metals for a while.

[ThomasPowers]

Just remember that a lot of scrap goes for less money when you process it as it's no longer clearly tied to it's antecedents 

[Kozzy]

I guess ya never know.  Monty Holm (photo) started his scrap metal "empire" by stripping copper wires out of old motors in a shed in his backyard when no one else wanted to deal with it.  He turned it into a multi-million dollar scrap business (and one heck of a great museum of the stuff that didn't get scrapped).  He would give every child visitor to the museum a dollar coin because that's what he claimed he started with.  Yes, the RR engines were part of the "scrap" that never got scrapped.

[Charlotte]

Great example!  OTOH There are many things which were possible and practical "in the day" that are less so today because of better understanding of recycling and materials costs. Kind or really depends on what your area is like and whether you have any current competition.

In my town there are three different guys that pick up every scrap of stray metal as soon as it hits the dirt.

[MZcrazy]

On 4/4/2016 at 1:09 PM, the iron dwarf said:

Ggggrrrraaapphhhite crucible 

 

Great topic!!   Graphite, firebrick, and Electric Arc Furnace. plasma  is deadly but worth it  is there a rubber glove I should be wearing? where does one acquire some?

[Frazer]

I'm not sure I follow your train of thought here. Can you bring us up to speed? 

Acquire some what? Rubber gloves? Catalytic converters? Crucibles? An electric arc furnace? I think you'll have better luck with getting an answer if you provide some more details.

BTW, welcome aboard! Have you read the information in the "Read This First" tab located in the banner at the top of every page? This contains all the helpful tips to get the most out of the site. One such tip is to include your general location in your profile as where you are located in the world can have a significant impact on the price/availability of many materials.

[ThomasPowers]

Right Over There!   Tell them Tumnus sent you!