Help making 30 spoons

[Blacksmithing Blueberry]

I've been trying to get a swage block since my first project demands one. Can anybody help a smith out?

[DSW]

What are you trying to do and where are you located?

 

Plenty of places sell swage blocks both new and used. Simple ones can be made relatively easily. I've made basic swages for use in the hardy hole of the anvil. I've also got a decent sized ( 3"x4"x6") chunk of steel I've been tempted to drill so I have half rounds of various sizes, or rig it up on my small mill and mill out V groves in the side to fill in the smaller sizes my big swage doesn't have.

[Blacksmithing Blueberry]

I am trying to make 30 spoons and 30 forks for a newer café being opened in my town. Maypearl.

I've also been looking online and around but I am the only blacksmith that's been around for a while. I have not found any spoon swages that are cheap enough or have spoon molds.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Blacksmithing Blueberry

[Smoggy]

I'm of the opinion that by the time you find and collect a swage block (suitable for your project ) you could have made the exactly shaped swages you want and likely have the cutlery half finished. You would also then have cutlery patterns unique to you!

[Blacksmithing Blueberry]

I like that idea. the only problem is that I have never done that, and don't even know how to do it.

[DSW]

Spoon swage would be a tougher find. "Cheap" doesn't help.  Other than forging the shape into a block, my 2nd thought would be machining one in using a CNC mill. In some ways I almost wished I'd been doing more forging when I took my night class in machining. There's all sorts of things I could have made with access to the schools machine shop vs making the small "make work" projects they had us do.

[ThomasPowers]

Maypearl; is that on Pitcairn Island? if so check around bang iron valley to see what was left from the Bounty.

Without a location any suggestions might have to include international shipping!  Over 100 different countries are participating on this World Wide Web-site.

However you might see if a local Votech has any CNC mills and get a custom swage made to fit *your* design(s).  You could also try to make your own by making a positive and using a hydraulic press to punch it into a hot block of steel.

Cheapness is not an issue because you built the cost of necessary tooling in to your contract right?

[Blacksmithing Blueberry]

Maypearl TX.

I am 16 nearly 17. I'm sorry, but I don't have a clue what you mean sir.

[DSW]

Darn disappearing posts just got me again... GRRR!!!

[Blacksmithing Blueberry]

disappearing posts eh?

 

[ThomasPowers]

Then I guess I can't help.

[Blacksmithing Blueberry]

Thanks though ThomasPowers.

[DSW]

The disappearing posts issue is an ongoing site bug where posts you submit simply disappear and are not recorded. I just lost a 2nd one, give me a few minutes to retype it all again....

[Blacksmithing Blueberry]

ok

[DSW]

I wonder if this is a project you are ready to take on at your level of experience. I'm not sure with my years of experience I would want to take on this challenge with the high level of craftsmanship I'd expect it to require. One thing to keep in mind is that restaurants frequently "loose" silverware if they get trashed by accident. You may need to make more than 30 sets, or be prepared to later replicate the patterns if they loose some.

 

As far as making the swage, I'd probably grab myself a few pieces of 4140. I'd choose that because it's easy for me to get locally, and I have a fair amount of experience heat treating it. I'd taper and upset one piece to fit my anvils hardy hole as my bottom swage. The 2nd I'd shape as a top tool to forge the spoon shape into the swage. I'd probably make 2 tools. One as a "roughing" tool to use to form 90% of the shape, and a 2nd one as a "final "tool because the heavy forging will probably distort the shape some and I'd rather have my finished profile done before starting. That may not be necessary depending on what you make the tool from and if it's hardened and treated or not. I'd probably fuller around the tool and use a rod handle vs punching and drifting since it's easier to do that by myself. The top tool will also be useful to shape your final spoons. You may also have to do some grinding with a die grinder to finish up the forged shape and smooth it out.

 

Included are picts of the simple bark swage I made up for my wine rack earlier this year. Idea is the same as what you are going to need to do. Only real difference is I welded the shank to my piece rather than forge it all from one piece since I only needed it for limited use. I this case I didn't need a final top tool as the hammer was used to drive in the stock.

 

 

[Blacksmithing Blueberry]

thanks for the ideas and pictures! I might be young, but I have been smithing for a couple of years now.

[ThomasPowers]

VoTech:  Vocational Technical School; teaches things like machining, welding, etc; I've sometimes been able to get machine work done very reasonably at one.

CNC Mill: a computerized mill allowing for fancy slopes and angles to be milled into steel.

Hydraulic press: a press that uses a hydraulic cylinder to apply tons of pressure on an item so good to push a positive shape into a forging hot chunk of steel to make a swage

These things or you haven't heard of the Mutiny on the Bounty and the subsequent removal of the mutineers to Pitcairn island to hide from British retribution---they burnt the ship so it wouldn't give them away and the place they put the anvil off the ship is called "bang iron valley" to this day. (AKA bang on iron)

[matei campan]

6 hours ago, Blacksmithing Blueberry said:

I am trying to make 30 spoons and 30 forks for a newer café being opened in my town. Maypearl.

I've also been looking online and around but I am the only blacksmith that's been around for a while. I have not found any spoon swages that are cheap enough or have spoon molds.

for 30 spoons you can even use some hard wood "swage" - just carve the shape on the end of a small stump, etc. you can carve several depressions, some for rough forming others for final cold finishing.

or you can forge one from some thicker flat bar (lets say 1/3inch thick). or take a round bar, bend it oval, close to the desired shape and weld it on a piece of steel to be put in the vise, or in the hardy hole. there are fast & good & cheap & easy enough solutions which could allow you to make that spoons in no time.  if you'll produce thousands, then, yes, it's worth making/buying a real, specialized heavy duty swage block. or even make some male/female dies to make them in seconds.

[MrDarkNebulah]

I havent tried it myself, but I've seen other people use wood to make a swage block for spoons. They use the hot metal to burn out the bowl, and then as long as they keep it a little wet it works quite well.

[Glenn]

Wood end grain is a very useful tool for many dishing projects.

The U or oval shape swage is another option that works and the hardie hole can be used to dish metal.

Use what you have on hand to your advantage.

 

[Dave Budd]

maybe rather than trying to make 30 identical sets that require swages to be made, you could make 30 similar sets. That way as long as the handles are similar, the fact that the bowls/forks are different makes little difference

I occasionally make sporks (spoon one end and fork the other end), normally in batches of a dozen or so. I do all of the bowl forming free hand with a ball peen and a dimple in a block of mild steel.

To begin with (first 50 or so) I used a dimple in a block of oak, but as it got larger through burning I needed a steel swage. Simple case of hammering a round punch into a lump of mild steel until it's the right sort of shape and size. Then clean up with a die grinder/dremel/etc. The forged spoon ends are then tidied up on a belt grinder and the scale taken off to make for a smoother utensil in the mouth

[Fatfudd]

I, like Dave Budd, have made many spoons without the use of a swage by simply using a light weight ball peen hammer on the anvil. I regularly do demos for school kids asking them where they thought people in the 1800's got spoons from if there was no walmarts around, Then I make a spoon out of a piece of 3/8 round bar in about 10 minutes. 

If you really want/think you need a swage block go to the Salt Fork Craftsman website http://www.saltforkcraftsmen.org/swage.shtml. Their swage blocks are very reasonable and since OK isn't too far away from you the shipping shouldn't be expensive.

[SmoothBore]

A single "link" of sizable chain, ... with one end heated and somewhat "flattened", into a "tear drop" shape, ... and set flush in the end grain of a stump ... might serve as a more durable "female" swage.

A Ball Peen Hammer ( struck with a "soft" hammer, or mallet ) should do for the "male" die.

 

An easy way to inlet the chain link into the surface of the stump, is to use an "Adjustable Wood Bit".

First trace the shape on the stump.

Then bore a shallow pocket that's slightly smaller than the diameter of the "big" end of the link, ... and a smaller one for the other end.

Chisel away the remaining bits, ... and use the "red hot" link to "burn" the final shape into the wood.

Gouge out, ... or burn out any additional depth needed to complete the spoon.

 

.

 

[Frosty]

Truth is a person with some basic skills will find cutting spoon blanks a LOT more work than forming them. You don't really  need a swage / bottom die. Cut the blank and dish it on the anvil, bouge / plannish it with wooden or rawhide mallet over a small ball stake, a ball pein in a vise with a works a treat.

Forks are even worse for the cutting blanks to forming and finishing ratio.

Swages and bottom dies are almost more hassle than they're worth, ALMOST and don't forget you need a top die to make them less work than dishing. You still need to bouge, polish and finish. Electro polish if using stainless steel.

SmoothBore's laid out probably the most practical bottom die for a production run of "matching" pieces. Concentrate on the handles and SELL the bragging rights. These ARE after all custom HAND forged utensils you know, that's worth a great deal.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Al Stephens]

Forge your spoon shape flat, then dish on a hardwood block.