Making some hinges, material choice

[Seek]

Hi everyone,

I have been quiet for some time, but have learned a lot in the mean time, I am following a beginners course from a real smith, which is very helpfull. Now I am thinking about making something that I can actually use. I have a small cabinet in the works which needs some nice period looking hinges, the period being the 17th century, Somewhat like this:

I have been watching a show from Colonial Williamsburg, so I actually have an idea how to make them. But I have a question about the choice of material.

 

Wrought iron would be perfect, but I don't have any, so, normal sheet steel it is going to be. I need to do some forge welding. And that is an art I haven't quite mastered yet. This hinge is very small, so it needs to be made from thin material. Would it be wise to start with 2mm thin steel plate (that is about 5/64"). Is it very difficult to forge weld such thin material? I will practice on thicker stuff first.

 

[SmoothBore]

What part of that Hinge requires Welding ?

 

 

.

[ThomasPowers]

As real wrought iron is know for it's welding; there are a lot of examples of hinges with the barrel formed by wrapping the stock around a mandrel and then forge welding a bit of an overlap onto the strap section---much like the large hinges were done for barns here in the USA back in the wrought iron days.

And yes welding thin modern steels can be tricky to get the weld without scaling away the piece doing it.  Getting the welding skill down and being very careful with your fire control is the way to go.  I'd start by making some door or gate hinges in that style and work smaller as you get good at it!

[Seek]

Thanks Thomas, I'll do that. Maybe I should build a barn for those hinges 

 

I have been watching several videos displaying this principle and I am itching to give it a try.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7CXckYVEC4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0matSWYIRM&list=PLKBqAv2WdG_Z1nBi9n95A1cOnLEVqo3U1&index=3

[Wayne]

You can also check out the dvds by th UMBA blacksmiths of Peter Ross in action.

[781]

Imbalance video are no longer available

[Seek]

But there were still some entertaining videos at that site!

I just saw that Peter Ross makes a hinge of 1/16" plate steel. That's only 1.5 mm thick. So it is possible, just needs a bit of practice I guess.

 

[Charlotte]

There are some things that are actually easier in a  charcoal/coke/ coal fire.  Think of it like welding chain links.  small very clean fire with anvil next to forge.  This is the place for an anvil shaped piece of rail that is pre heated with a chunk of heavy scrap. Plan and rehearse every move. One thing about wrought is that welding heat is higher than mild steel and flux less important.   Just my thought.

 

[Michael]

Seek, I recently did a demo for a period furniture group on small hinges.  Working from the Peter Ross video (well worth the $10 download fee) and I used barrel hoops for the material.Found a half dozen non galvanized hoops at my local building material recycler,

I've also struggled with forge welding, but oddly enough, when making the hinges in a coal fire, the wide surface of the hinge leaves (really, only an inch by an inch and a quarter) and the thin material made the welds easy.  I was able to see the slick, melted butter surface of the steel as it reached welding heat and the thin material was very easy to get heated all the way through.

After the welds were done it was easy to peen the hinge leaf out to the butterfly shape.  The techniques in the PR video would be easy to translate to your style of hinge.

[Seek]

Those look good Michael! And glad to hear tha tit is in fact quite doable.

I didn't know that I could download the video. I couldn't find the DVD overhere in Europe, and a download is much cheaper anyway.

[VaughnT]

Practice on larger stock and get your technique refined.  And remember that there's no rule saying that the hinges must be welded together.  If the overlap is covered by the visible part, just be sure to have one or two screw holes going through the overlap so it's all held securely in place.

[beammeupscotty]

For light duty hinges such as what would be put on a small cabinet, welding them closed is not really necessary if you make them from thick enough material.  The dimensions and material of the door you will be attaching will determine whether or not you need to forge weld the barrel closed.  For a small door, something like up to 18" square, I would not bother with the weld if you make them out of at least 1/8" thick material.

[Seek]

The idea seems to be, when you use light stock and double it for the leave, you end up with thin stock for the barrel. That just looks more elegant. A barrel made from 1/8" stock is a bit thick.

 

[VaughnT]

Don't forget that there should be some meat left for cleaning things up with a file.  Even if the leaves are 1/8" stock, you can make them look very thin by beveling the edges and dressing the flats up with a file.  Same for the barrels.  

Even if I wanted to go for that "forged" finish, I would still probably want to forge everything thick and then work it down with files to give it a smooth even surface.  Then I'd put it back in the forge to scale up a bit before applying a wax finish.

[Seek]

Apreciate the the tips Vaughn. First I'm going to do some practice welding and if that turns out bad I can always try your ideas.

 

[Seek]

A little bit of succes. A took a bit longer to find some forge time, but yesterday I got a nice sunny day (the forge is outside) combined with a day of from work. It all went a little different from what I expected. The forging proved to be the easy part! Forming the metal around the hinge pin and ending up with a nicely round and tight tube was a lot harder! In the end I had to resort to the drill press to drill out some too tight spots. Here ist the result of a hard days work. I really need to get better and quicker at this forging business.

I used 2mm thick material. Next time I will try 1.5 mm, just as in the Peter Ross video.

 

 

[Seek]

Of course I ment to say: The WELD was the easy part. Forging of the rest was difficult. 

[Michael]

Seek, those look great! Nice little weld there on the edge of the hinge leaf.  Did you make a jig to wrap the barrels around?

the jig I made, a plate of 1/4 inch steel bent over at a very sharp angle, then filed and ground sort of round, was a bit thicker than it needed to be, hence the huge 1/4 inch hinge pins on my hinges.  Jig is on the lower right

[Seek]

Yes I made a jig too. Just a 5mm pin welded onto a thick plate of steel. That helps enourmously. But still, it ain't easy! The parts are small and cool very quickly, so I must work quickly. Everything has to be handled with tongs. I have one where the pin is solidly embedded in the hinge with no way to get it out again (apart from drilling). I just need more practice.

 

[Seek]

It took some time, but I have hinges ready for my little cupboard. I started all over again with thinner material this time, just 1.5 mm thick (about 1/16"). The welds ain't perfect, but it isn't a load bearing application, so I don't worry about that. This weekend I shaped them with hacksaw and files. I only need to drill or punch some holes, never done any punching so I think I'll give that a try.

 

 

 

[Michael]

Those came out great!

[MrDarkNebulah]

Very nice.

[Seek]

Lots of filing makes everything look good ! But for a rank beginner I am pretty happy wit the result.

[Frank Turley]

Small sheet metal hinges can have the barrel rolled and unwelded. I heartily recommend watching on youtube "the manuel Guerra lockmaking shop." The video was made several years ago by Helmut Hillenkamp in Cuenca, Ecuador. Manuel is the smith in the camo cap forging rolled barrels beginning two minutes into the video. The entire video is worth watching.