j.w.s. Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) So it's been a rainy July 4th and I've spent my day bouncing back and forth between netflix and youtube. Anyway, I came across this video of Kiyoshi Kato forging a knife, and right around the 9:05 mark, he applies what appears to be beeswax to his blade prior to putting in into the hot charcoal to heat for the quench. What I'm wondering is, does anyone have experience with this method? I'm assuming it's to stop scaling during the soak. Also, do you think it's straight beeswax, a mixture like linseed oil beeswax and turpentine, or do you think it's something altogether different? Normally I do a thin clay coat between normalizing and hardening and a method that doesn't require a long drying time would be nice if it yielded similar results.-J Edited July 4, 2015 by j.w.s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Well it's not beeswax you can tell that by how the fire reacts to it. Seeing the dried out drips on his pot I would assume it's some sort of clay mixture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 That's my thought a slip consistency clay. It's color, the dry residue on the pot and no flare up when it goes into the fire are pretty much it. Of course I could be wrong.For instance, in the video looks like he's using a sen and stone after heat treatment. Is it not particularly high carbon steel or aren't they showing us something?Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 That's my thought a slip consistency clay. It's color, the dry residue on the pot and no flare up when it goes into the fire are pretty much it. Of course I could be wrong.For instance, in the video looks like he's using a sen and stone after heat treatment. Is it not particularly high carbon steel or aren't they showing us something?Frosty The Lucky.On my monitor it really looks like yellow beeswax and it appears to be shiny on the brush build up.. I agree that the pot residue looks like clay, I just don't know of a clay that can be brushed on like that and remain on the blade once in the fire - typically any moisture would cause it to bubble or flake so it would make this step irrelevant. Wax on the other hand would burn off leaving a carbony soot; they switch sequences somewhat fast so it could be we just didn't see the giant flames of the burn off - but still, burning the wax would at least stop the decarb on the surface.. In the beginning of the video, he's preheating the steel, stacking and welding.. so it's a san mai of some sort, but I don't know the steel composition. I do agree it seems odd to be using that sen after the heat treat.. I'm just trying to keep my mind entertained today, doesn't seem to be anyone using the chat room, the wife's watching girly shows and the baby is content so I'm not going to go putting a stick in that hornets nest.. lolJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 San mai, I remember now. So the sen may have been used to expose the high carbon core layer, mild doesn't harden. Once the mild is planed away it's time for the stone.Wax of any kind would've caused a flare up in the forge, there was none so it isn't wax. Thin slip might boil off but then again the water might just boil off leaving enough clay to shield the steel. The "brush" buildup might have been a little dipper or spoon coated in slip.Fun speculating but I'm expecting someone who actually knows to speak up soon. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 It couldn't be a wax because it was far too runny. If the pot had been heated to make the wax liquid, there wouldn't be dried wax on the outside. The lack of flare up in the fire (which would happen rather instantly) would indicate to me that it's some type of clay-like material. It might have a small fraction of oil in it, something slight enough to burn off without a flare up.Interesting stuff.I was curious about all the pounding he did on the stump. All he seemed to be doing was hammering the blade into a curve, then reversing it. No idea what that was supposed to accomplish other than proving that the welds were solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 What was the spoke shave thing he was using to put an edge on the blade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsoldat Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 The spoke shave thing would be a sen, ( think I have that right) basically a drawknife for working on metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Yes, Sen. It's an aggressive scraper, works like a shave. They're surprisingly fast, smooth and accurate.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkDobson Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 the clay mixture looks like some sort of homemade anti scale compound, not 100% sure but he uses it the same way ive seen brownells anti scale compound used by some knife makers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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