RainsFire Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 For the last few days I've been firing up a charcoal kiln using the direct method making a few barrel fulls.. and realized, I better make sure that I actually can and enjoy using this fuel before I invest so much wood and time into it.. so anyway, while one of my kiln loads was cooking away I scraped all the coal residue from my coal forge, blew out the dust ect... and filled er up with charcoal. Best solidfuel smithing experience of my life, and who would have thought.. free fuel too.. Fire maintenance was easy, crank hard and put more on top.. no tweezing clinker, no coke formation.. no burning the impurities from the coal on top.. just solid heat.. It was an easy to build fire, expanded fast, got to be the perfect size, was just plain awesome.. I even achieved multiple perfect forgewelds first attempt THe only downsides I could find at the moment to this fuel was how fast it goes.. I was a little suprised really, I had heard it went fast.. but not that fast. That and the spark's.. I didn't think they would be hot but aparently they are, as I now have a blister on my lip to prove it.. sorry for the insanely long and pointless post about my little experience but I was stoked.. It was really the first time I could easily forge weld consistantly.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pault17 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Rainsfire, thanks for the post. I been foolin with the idea about other-than-gas forging but just don't want the the list of issues with coal. your post gives hope. Happy thanks giving to you and IFI members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meancoyote Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 ive tried coal, propane and charcoal. i like charcoal best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I use charcoal exclusively, but then I am a rank n00b with a history obsession, forging in the tiny back yard to my rented house... There are many features I like about charcoal: it's renewable, it's the more traditional fuel (in terms of number of millenia it has been used vs. other fuels ), it has virtually no smoke, no complex or possibly dangerous gas fittings and valves, you can make your own fuel, and it doubles as one xxxx of a barbecue! I also hear it's virtually self-fluxing, but then I haven't attempted forge welding yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 you making it out of hardwood or softwood ? or does it even matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mende Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 When making charcoal . .it is a bit safer to use resin free hardwood . .it burns way longer too. resin loaded or chemically treated softwoods give off a lot of gas while carbonizing and burn fast ... try using oak ..straight from the forest:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meancoyote Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 pallets make good charcaol, softwood does burn alot fatser, but seems to burn just as hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I've used both hardwood and softwood to make charcoal and have had no problem welding upwards of 1/2" and working 1" which has been my "patience" limit for time to heat and hammer. Goes through a lot more fuel with the softwood so I usually mix the two together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Stegmeier Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 If I remember correctly the Japanese used softwood for their charcoal and in the west we tended to use hardwoods. Charcoal has a similiar BTU content to coal by weight, the charcoal is just a lot less dense so you seem to go through it faster. The fire tends to spread a lot more when using charcoal vs coal, but you can use bricks to build a deeper fire without letting it spread so much... Another nice thing is you can just dump fresh charcoal right on top of your fire, as opposed to green coal which you should always work in from the sides of the fire so it will coke up, and never just dump in the middle of the fire while you are using it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainsFire Posted November 22, 2007 Author Share Posted November 22, 2007 ha, I just was fortunate enough to fire it up on thanksgiving.. so thanks for that!! time to eat.. so I gota make this quick, I think im going to go out and make an experimental really small forge with firebrick, probably 5wide, 8deep, and probably 8 tall.. should be interesting, I'm trying to whip up some damascus. results should be up in about an hour.. time for turkey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Hi RainsFire. Good to hear about your positive experience! As you refine the technique, things can only get better. Economical fire control is essential when using charcoal. The sprinkler can is your friend. Fleas can be bothersome. I just got a pretty bad burn from a flea. It shot up under my safety glasses (with side shields) and wedged under the nosepiece. Instinctively, I tried to brush it off with my left hand, but my left hand had a thick leather glove on (a no-no ). I ended up grinding the flea into the bridge of my nose, and it took a long time to heal. Moral of the story: no gloves and no safety glasses around the forge. (If you want to keep the bridge of your nose safer.) Otherwise, if you want to keep your valuable vision and fingers intact, go ahead and put on those gloves and safety glasses. It's your choice. Seriously, though, I have found that fleas are much tamer from homemade charcoal than the typical mesquite or hardwood lump charcoal found at the store. I think that you have better control over the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainsFire Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 my fleas are insane!! I find that they kinda burn off though as the charcoal is consumed.. so I tend to rake in charcoal from the sides if I'm trying to avoid them.. I cant get a fire deep and hot enough to weld 1/2in rod onto its self.. so any suggestions would be lovely, I'm using a rivit forge with firebrick stacked in a square'ish shape.. and a hand blower.. yup, I'm trying to crank out some damascus.. it seems like that first weld was the only one that worked.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 no gloves and no safety glasses around the forge. Take a short test. Type using only one hand. Then close your eyes and tell me what you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mayo Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Take a short test. Type using only one hand. Then close your eyes and tell me what you see. Very wise comment Glen only a fool does not use the proper safety equipment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainsFire Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 Take a short test. Type using only one hand. Then close your eyes and tell me what you see. He wevt ti the farb he went to the farm.. erm, I see the inside of my eyelids.. he was being a little sarcastic I think.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnW Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Hey RainsFire, about the welding -- I don't know, but here's a couple things you might think about. Too much air = too much oxidation and scale = won't weld. I think you said deep fire, and did you say you were putting the piece pretty high up in the fire. I think you want it pretty high. A deep fire is supposed to have 3 zones oxidizing (low), netrual, and carborizing. I've never had very many flees, and I think it's in the sifting, although others say they think it's in the resign. High air would tend to increase the flees. Maybe you can figure some way to get a bigger deeper fire for welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Zietman Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 sometimes less air is a hotter fire. Too much air I've found cools it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainsFire Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 hmn, thats interesting. I've kinda built up a deep fire with brick, but Its difficult to get the charcoal on top to heat.. and when I do the bottom has been consumed and it gets to be a bit of a cycle.. I'll try and make a new forge thats deeper some time this week and try that.. but I dunno. I'm sure its possible.. I mean, so many people have done it before me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Patrick Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 RF, It is pretty funny,, I just got bit by the Damascas bug as well. I also am using a rivet forge with charcoal. The experience that I would relate is this. Take your time bringing it up to weld temp. I make a mound/cave of charcoal, with lots of fresh on top of it. Don't pour tons of air into the bed of coal,,,, just nice and steady. Watch the billet close and do not spare the flux. I use good old reliable 20 mule team borax. You will see the surface of the billet get glassy when you are VERY close to the weld temp. Ah yes,, make sure you are brushing all the scale and other junk off before you fold and go for the following welds. I hope this helps! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnW Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Hey Phil that's great. RainsFire, you're in uncharted territory for me. I'm the only person that I have seen that forges with charcoal, and I haven't done any welding. Many authors say charcaol works, but none describe how to use it, that I know of. If your welding isn't working the way that you would like, you might try a science experiment. Just pile up the charcaol, crank up the air and see what it takes to burn up a piece of steel. Maybe you can find something about the minimum burn range heat that would helpful in welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Patrick Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I have used charcoal for a while both just smithing and welding. The big advantage that I see is that you have (in my opinion) a pure fuel source, basicly pure carbon. The down side is that you will fuel more rapidly. But for me that's ok. I laugh at myself, but I always think when I'm forge welding, I'm sneaking up on the weld. If I run up at it (full speed ahead with the blower), I scare it away. If I sneak up on it, steady air, lots of flux for cammo, I can catch it. Another thing that I think has helped me is that I learned to weld with an Oxy/actyl rig. While welding this way (I learned on sheet metal) you have to pay attention to what the metal is doing, just with visual clues. I will pull my billet I am welding out of the coal just enough to let me see where it is temp wise and put it back in. Remember, when you are welding anything in the forge, both of the surfaces have to hit critical mass at the same time, so be patient. If it is a thick billet, that heat has to penetrate all the way in. Remember,, sneak up on it. thanks john w!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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