lawman Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Hey Guys, I am targeting this at the guys that actually own one of these hammers. I just ordered one and I hope to have it by the end of the summer. Based on what I can see myself forging I think that this hammer will serve me well. Being as I don't have a power hammer now it will be a huge improvement. My question for the guys that have them is do you regret buying it :huh: ........more to the point..... do you regret not getting a bigger one. I know that it human nature to always want a bigger, more impressive tool. I myself really wanted to get the 75#, but after talking to John Larson he pretty well convinced me that based on the extra cost, size of my air compressor, my forging needs, and my shop space that the 50# was a really good fit. I'm sure that It will be perfect for my present needs but I can't help but wonder what other users have experienced. I didn't get the opportunity to test drive the hammer, I'm a long way from the East coast, but based on the spotless reviews of both the machines and the man that builds them I fell very comfortable with the purchase of an Iron Kiss hammer , Just still can't help but wonder if I picked the right horse even if the next horse in the stable was an extra $2k. I suppose I can take that $2k and build myself a forging press and solve my anxioty about someday maybe wanting to work bigger stock. Maybe I will. I think I have seen every video of Iron Kiss hammers on the internet. It would be nice if there was some more video of the 50 chewing on a bigger chunk of iron. Lawman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawman Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Hmmmm....OK, :huh: I'll take the lack of response to this one as there are not a whole lot of these in circulation among the guys that watch the forum every day. I suppose that makes sense, since Mr. Larson is not really a high volume producer in the first place and I would venture a guess that the 75# and up are probably sold more often than the 50#. No problem there. I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week. No matter.......I will just draw my own conclusion based on my own experience when it arrives. Since I have never used a 75# or bigger......and probably never will.......I doubt I will know what I'm missing anyway. I'll just smash iron with what I get when I get it and take some pictures and video along the way. B) Lawman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 If John Larson told you a 50 would be good, then I bet you will like it. Sorry you didn't get more help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawman Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 If John Larson told you a 50 would be good, then I bet you will like it. Sorry you didn't get more help. No need to be sorry, and your right, if the man told me that a 50# is what I needed then it seems a little silly to question it. I assure you it would not have taken much for him to talk me out of an extra $2K. I appreciate the fact that he recommended the smaller hammer based on what I told him I was going to do and not trying to sell me something bigger than what I will likely need. From My perspective on this one.......no news is probably the most re-assuring response possible. If I had gotten a "Don't buy the little guy" response I would just be kicking myself for the next 5 months.......... This is better all around........... :D Lawman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Troy, I may as well say something for your benefit. You have the option to switch your order to a 75 if that is what you end up deciding may be your best choice. I sell 50s and 75s about equally in number. Whatever you decide on, just let me know. Any questions or comments can be sent to me via e-mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I have a friend with an IronKiss; I don't know what size they have but I do know that have been delighted with it for a good stretch of years so far. I recall them extolling the clamp function. I believe it was the first on in AZ; so John night remember the size (Apache Junction?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawman Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Troy, I may as well say something for your benefit. You have the option to switch your order to a 75 if that is what you end up deciding may be your best choice. I sell 50s and 75s about equally in number. Whatever you decide on, just let me know. Any questions or comments can be sent to me via e-mail. Thanks John, I should probably just stay with what I got. But if I talk my self into the 75 i'll let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Let me talk you into the next size up :) you get just a little more clear space between the dies. You can fit more tooling and furniture under the dies. The little bit of extra weight of the tup, adds a bit, but is less important than the extra air... More stroke is good:-) A power hammer is more than just drawing out. Some of the smaller air hammers have only 6" of air between the dies. The Ironkiss 50 has 9", the 75# has 11". If you try to punch a hole in 2" stock there is nearly 4", if you slip a bolster under it you get maybe 5"-6"... The 75 will still have enough stroke to have full power, the 50 will handle it, the smallest Kuhn will be pretty weak with only an inch or two of stroke. More is better;-) Just some things to think about. Most guys don't think about furniture on the bottom die, and space for top tools. If 99% of what you do is just drawing, the 50# is more than adequate, and it still has 9". With more weight and the option to lengthen the stroke the 75# can hit harder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I bought a set of plans when I built my hammer. I didn't build exactly to plan but I also told the designer what I was planning to do and built the tup size he suggested. I have never wanted for more hammer, even though I built it with a large potential increase in tup weight in mind. It is 75# just for general info. I am not forging ship anchors or huge sculptural elements. My next move would be a small motorized flypress, like a 20 ton. My hammer is big enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 To give any advise we need more information about what you plan to do with the hammer. If you are running a commercial shop I would advise bigger. If you plan on making lots of tools like hammers go bigger. But if this is a hobby and most of what you plan on doing is 1" or smaller stock a 50lb hammer will do plenty. You will be amazed at the difference a 50lb hammer will make it your work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I talked with Mr. Larson at Quad State for some time. As a machinist, I was impressed with the hammer. As a blacksmith, i was impressed with the hammer. I have not seen a better utility hammer out there. Size is end-use dependant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Lawman, So..you are going from hand hammering to a 50 IK (Iron Kiss)? I think at first it will be so powerful you will be scared....I suggest dressing up and leather and shielding and making toothpicks from 2x2 wood for an hour to get used to its function. A week into using it you will wonder why you ever thought of not having one. The bang of the tool is not that it hits...all hammers hit...the thing is that it hits with control.....you can make a 5 or 1005 pound hammer do good work if you had control. I like the IK hammers and will most likely put one in at my "school" area here in Sturgeon Bay. Been a long time coming as I first visited John, what, a decade ago? and liked what I saw. Now if he can just work out how to make a small hammer with a transformer button on the side where it would become a 300 weight for an hour or so.... Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawman Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 To give any advise we need more information about what you plan to do with the hammer. If you are running a commercial shop I would advise bigger. If you plan on making lots of tools like hammers go bigger. But if this is a hobby and most of what you plan on doing is 1" or smaller stock a 50lb hammer will do plenty. You will be amazed at the difference a 50lb hammer will make it your work. At this point hobby stuff pretty well sums it up , although i could see myself trying to make a few hammers " very few" and a bunch of tongs. Realistically i will probably work 1" ........ Mostly 5/8 and below. Working steel this size will probably cover 95% of what i will want to do in the future. I know the 50 is more than suffecient for such work..... No doubt in my mind. Its the 5% that has me wondering. I fully expect that having a powerhammer in the shop is going to open up a ton of new possibilities and will change the way i look at things. What im struggling with is for what a new hammer costs i want to cover as many bases as i can. I know that no one tool is going to cover everything that i might want to do, but i certainly ain't planning on buying another one any time soon. So the real question is am I willing to shell out an extra $2k for something that im not sure i really even need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 A powerhammer truly opens the doors of creativity. You definitely need one. My grandma needed one, she just never knew it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 A powerhammer truly opens the doors of creativity. You definitely need one. My grandma needed one, she just never knew it.That's because she could swing a 25lb sledge...<grin> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I think you need to find a copy of J.W. Lillico "Blacksmith's Manual Illustrated" and then after you read that, beg, borrow, steal, or buy the Clifton Ralph power hammer tapes. A utility hammer like the Iron Kiss, is perfectly suited for this kind of work... Its just a question of are you interested in doing that kind of work... I love this kind of stuff, since your willing to cough up this kind of cash for your hobby, I will assume this will have atleast some allure... Come over to the POWER HAMMER SIDE OF THE FORCE;-) Something else to consider is that the 100, and the 150 can hit as lightly as the 50, so you can work 1/4" stock on them too, but you can also do 2"... Something else to think about... I had a 90# BULL hammer, and I have played on a fair number of bigger hammers, 400# Chambersburg, 250# Eire, 650# Niles, Bement, Pond, 250# LG, 100#LG, and a Sahiliner... With control more is better... If you haven't been bitten by the tool making bug, or the power hammer lust infection, the 50 will be fine;-) I just want to be able to forge anvils sometime before I die... I have the overhead crane rails... need a monster hammer, and a big enough forge ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 SJS, you are a good advocate of power hammering. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Lillico and Clifton, along with Steve Parker, and Kurt Farenbach, have changed how I think about Blacksmithing. They have influenced me hugely... I think in terms of Volume, and isolating stock, and focusing the power of the hammer. Clifton teachs VARP: Volume, Area, Resistance, and Power... The more Volume of steel you are working the greater Power you need to forge it effectively. If you focus the Power you have available on a smaller Area you do more work... Resistance is determined by Alloy, Heat, Area, and Volume. If the stock is high alloy, you need more power. If the stock is hotter that generally reduces the resistance. Being too ambitious and attacking too large an area you either need more power, or you will be going slower than you could be... If you focus on a smaller Area you can squeeze the metal out faster and overcome the resistance more easily with the Power available. With control and good tools you can do all kinds of wonderful things... Plus I just Love power hammers, particularly utility and self contained air hammers, they add so much CAPACITY to a shop... An ill mannered mechanical is almost worthless to me. An air hammer is like a huge tireless polite and precise striker, you can do marvelous work alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottMitUns Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Lawman, How close to Victoria Tx are you? I just took delivery of a Big Blu 110 and had my first chance to play with it this morning. Get ready to be dumbfounded with what a few minutes of work with a power hammer can do! A buddy and I beat out a respectable looking cutting hardy with a 1-1/4" shank out of 4140 this morning, then drew some RR spikes out to around 2 ft for steak flippers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawman Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Lawman, How close to Victoria Tx are you? I just took delivery of a Big Blu 110 and had my first chance to play with it this morning. Get ready to be dumbfounded with what a few minutes of work with a power hammer can do! A buddy and I beat out a respectable looking cutting hardy with a 1-1/4" shank out of 4140 this morning, then drew some RR spikes out to around 2 ft for steak flippers. Um.......pretty close... :huh: .... I live in it. Thats awesome. I can't wait to play with mine when it gets here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawman Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 I think you need to find a copy of J.W. Lillico "Blacksmith's Manual Illustrated" and then after you read that, beg, borrow, steal, or buy the Clifton Ralph power hammer tapes. A utility hammer like the Iron Kiss, is perfectly suited for this kind of work... Its just a question of are you interested in doing that kind of work... I love this kind of stuff, since your willing to cough up this kind of cash for your hobby, I will assume this will have atleast some allure... Come over to the POWER HAMMER SIDE OF THE FORCE;-) Something else to consider is that the 100, and the 150 can hit as lightly as the 50, so you can work 1/4" stock on them too, but you can also do 2"... Something else to think about... I had a 90# BULL hammer, and I have played on a fair number of bigger hammers, 400# Chambersburg, 250# Eire, 650# Niles, Bement, Pond, 250# LG, 100#LG, and a Sahiliner... With control more is better... If you haven't been bitten by the tool making bug, or the power hammer lust infection, the 50 will be fine;-) I just want to be able to forge anvils sometime before I die... I have the overhead crane rails... need a monster hammer, and a big enough forge ;) Got the book.........actually already had it and didn't realize it. The videos. http://www.bluemoonpress.org/index.php/in-addition/videos-dvds/power-hammer-techniques-set-of-2-discs.html This what your talkin about.Their a little pricy. Are these the ones that the video is poor quality but content is really good? Think I read about these before. Lawman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Yes the video quality is not great and they are guaranteed to put you to sleep. They could probably be edited to half of their 12 hours. BUT !!!! they are well worth $125 they used to be around $400 when they were VHS. There is so much good information in them. There is quite a bit of information on guarding and braking for Little Giant type hammers which will not be necessary for you but it if far easier to fast forward through those sections with DVD over VHS. That being said there are little nuggets of usefull information buried in sections you might not be as interested in. Power hammers are very usefull tools but they are different from hand hammers in that the stroke is always straight up and down. This can be a big advantage but also can be a big disadvantage. Clifton covers many of the ways to get around the disadvantages. He also covers some of the dangers of power hammers you might not have thought of. As has been said and I beleive he says in the videos hand tools injure, power tools maim and kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Ive sold loads of Anyang 33# to people and kept in touch with them, and they have had no regrets about not going for anything bigger. I think tooling up to get the best of what you have is the most important thing. All that said, I can see why the bigger one is tempting..... go with your gut instinct - From J'L's many, and informed postings online over the years I would be tempted to go with his recommendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I like big fast hammers so personally I'd go for the bigger one. BUT if your compressor isn't big enough for it you won't be happy with it. I'd definitely defer to John and his expertise. If you have or are willing to get a compressor to run a bigger hammer and your budget will allow for it by all means do it. You will not be disappointed. By the way if your willing to invest in an ironkiss dont make excuses about the cost of cliftons tapes. To get a similar amount of info I took a 3day class with steve parker another industrial smith and invested 10 times that amount in tuition and travel. I have since met Clifton bought his tapes and all the tapes of demos he did for clubs over the years. The quality is often poor but you can still learn a tremendous ammount. In his club demos he often covers things not covered in the more formal tapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawman Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 By the way if your willing to invest in an ironkiss dont make excuses about the cost of cliftons tapes. :huh: I don't recall making any excuses..............I was making an observation. $125 for a couple of dvds is pricy. I never said that they weren't worth the money or that I wasn't going to buy them. A 50# Iron Kiss is a little Pricy.............But I got one of those coming too! That being said, I expect the videos to beat the hammer to my door step by a pretty wide margin. :D Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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