LibrariaNPC Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 As many of you know, I'm a beginner that is strapped for space; I live in a small apartment with my wife (a beginner corset maker) and haul everything into the yard each day I want to forge. I try to make everything I have multi-purpose, but if this can't work, please call me out on it. I have a Diamondback Two Burner Blacksmith forge that I've been setting up on a wooden table. The first time I fired it up, I only had kaowool underneath the forge, and it left a rather large char mark with a good deal of smoke. I went out afterward and invested into some fireplace bricks from Tractor Supply, as that was one of the suggestions I was given to protect whatever was underneath. Sadly, this still lead to more damage (and a good amount of smoke as I removed the bricks!). I'm now at the point where I have to consider my options. If it's possible to keep the table, I'd rather do that due to space, but I know that doing so may pose a risk. Here are the options I've been considering: Option 1: Buying a stand. Not a lot of fun, but it's there. Space and cost are the issues for this approach. If you have a suggestion for a stand, especially if it's both affordable AND collapsible, I'm all ears! (I know chileforge sells a collapsible stand, but that's a sizeable cost for a stand) Option 2: Building a stand. Again, space is an issue, but I also lack the tools (like a welder) and the knowledge (how to weld) to fabricate something out of metal. I would essentially have to ask someone to make a stand, which is similar to Option 1. Option 3: Disposable Stands. I dislike wasting things, so I'd rather not make a stand that will burn (and possibly ignite near a propane tank) to eventually be disposed of. Option 4: Reinforcing the table. Someone I met at the local farmer's market suggested that I just put a scrap piece of granite on the table, then put the fireplace bricks on top of it in order to protect the table. My aunt and uncle suggested a large chunk of steel (I'm wary as steel can conduct heat rather well), or spraying the table with the same insulation spray that is used for ovens. I read through >this thread recently, and >Frosty mentioned the idea of using cement backboard as a method of protecting the table. I'm curious if any of these will work to at least prolong the table's life until a bigger place is found, or to at least reduce the amount of tables I'll be making. As always, I appreciate any help the collective wisdom here is willing to offer. Thanks in advance for any help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Either Home Depot or Lowes ( I forget which off the top of my head) sells steel saw horses with adjustable legs. The top has a rubber sheet, but you can scrape that off. I used a pair of those under my coal forge for about 2 years. They fold up sort of flat for storage ( with the legs extended they will not fold flat 100% because the legs are longer than the length of the saw horse). BTW you don't NEED to be able to weld to build a stand. you could use threaded pipe and a flange adapter to bolt the pipe to a base, say an old truck rim, and to a top plate. Angle iron could be added for stiffness and bolted as well, or angle iron "feet" could be bolted on. The old trick with tables was to use caps on the ends of the pipe at the ground and flanges at the top to secure the legs to the table. That would be another option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibrariaNPC Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 With the idea of using a pair of saw horses, what would you suggest the table top to be? I didn't know of that approach; my experiences in hardware stores is rather limited. I'll keep that in mind the next time I swing out to Home Depot or Lowes to see if they have the materials and something to use as a top plate. Still up for every idea, because it'll be another week until I can do this (the joys of waiting for paychecks, heh). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Low table and a stacking configuration of fire bricks and/or sections of steel tubing. You will need at least three offset courses of firebrick to allow air to circulate to keep from scorching the wood table top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Learn to hot punch, and rivet. Good practice. Or bolts. Design your table based on saw horse legs so it will fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibrariaNPC Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 No complaints with hot punching (was doing that to make the brackets to mount my anvil before my boards for my too-small stand split); rivets are on the docket as I make tongs, but I need the forge to do that practice. I'll keep the saw horse leg table idea in mind for a future project with my uncle (who has all of the wood cutting tools I don't have the storage for). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I have my propane forge sitting on two layers of 16"x16" tiles I picked up at a Habitat Restore for a buck a piece. That's on top of a pressure treated outdoor work bench. Plenty of protection, I've been using it for a year with zero damage to table or tiles. If you have a Habitat Restore or similar salvage or thrift store nearby you can also hit that up for a durable and cheap table to put it all on, a couple bucks around here and you might luck out on a metal one so no worries about leaving it outside. Around here you can easily pick up one of those short two drawer file cabinets at such places for around $5. Put some wheels on it and you have both a portable metal table and storage for tools. I've been there, cash strapped and needing to get things done, improvisation is key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Steel plate comes to mind as a good top. Cement board used for bath room tile is fire proof, but not as sturdy as plywood. It wouldn't support a great weight over a large span. I'd need to see how the forges legs are set up to make a suggestion on that. Concrete pavers come in 18" widths, if that's wide enough to support your forge that's an option as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I too would go with some kind of table with a steel top. You can go to Fazzio's and get a piece of 1/4" plate and make some kind of legs, as per suggestions above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 To protect wood a couple of pieces of steel scrap *spaced* over the table top so they conduct heat and have an air gap. No welding needed place 2-3 pieces of sq stock on table, Then steel sheet one then 2-3 pieces of sq stock and steel sheet 2. Then forge Or how about one of the wood stove protective "place mats" How I do it is I got a junked gas grill, sold the grill part and bought a piece of steel that I bolted to the frame where the grill used to go and so have a steel table top that cost me negative money, (Al grill brought more than steel plate cost.) For my main shop I have a soapstone bench top that has worked under my SOFA gas forge. BTW does your gas forge merely need longer legs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibrariaNPC Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Thanks for all the input, everyone! SpankySmith, I have a few places like that nearby but haven't had any luck just yet. There are a few more I can look into, just finding the time to do so. Sadly, I really can't leave things outside; things tend to "walk off" around here too often (down the road from the town with the highest crime rate in NJ), thus why I do everything in portable ways. DSW, I was considering the cement board as a cheap approach after doing the research as a way to hold me over until I can do something better. I did try to post a few photos, but sadly the site won't let me do so at the moment. If you do a search for Diamondback Forge, you'll find the site with the images easily enough. njanvilman, I'm saving the Fazzio's run until I get a bit more cash on hand (been playing catch up and paying for my classes at Peter's Valley) and when I can borrow my uncle's truck (as my little car will be limited in how much stock I can carry). I'm partially tempted to try to recreate my current table approach in steel, but I'm curious if it'll be too much weight to carry back and forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Diamondback forges have *no* legs, that is why you have to build some sort of stand-off to let the heat dissipate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibrariaNPC Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Thank you for that insight, ThomasPowers. I'll keep my eyes peeled for the metals needed to make such a stand. I'm contemplating using the bricks I have with some of that cement backing. I did look into a gas grill approach (especially as someone commented on turning a gas grill into a coal forge easily enough), but haven't had luck with finding one that wasn't $100+ for a used grill in the area. Another idea I can keep in mind after I move somewhere a bit different. John, I thought the small parts were legs. As this forge doesn't have tall enough legs, do you think I should just stack a few firebricks underneath the legs (and not cover the table), and I should be good? Or should I set up a stacked approach like those suggested above? I currently have eight bricks on hand, so if I can get by with that, I can focus on getting my anvil stand set up instead of worrying about this. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I was a little surprised the Diamond back was radiating so much heat out the bottom but if they don't have legs. . . Wow. A couple thoughts, find an old steel box to set it on, say an old ammo can or to. Another thought is a couple rectangular pieces of sheet steel or SS, say 6" x 18".(I don't know how long your forge is so make it fit. Connect them on the short side with hinges so you can fold it flat for storage or open it into a V for a forge stand. A gate latch like hook will prevent it from shifting for safety's sake. Put this stand on cement board, firebrick or other heat shield material. These are a LOT easier to make than "traditional" stands with legs, frame, etc. a drill and pop rivets does it all and they fold flat as a tortilla. Easy greasy. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibrariaNPC Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 I'm a bit surprised as well, but then again I'm also not as well experienced with these things! With the fire bricks and kaowool layed in place, and the temperatures outside (I work in the yard sans covering) hovering around 30 degrees,the underside of the table was in the 190-210 degree range after an hour. The forge was running at 8psi (max of 30), and I don't think I was anywhere NEAR welding heat yet (which this forge is technically able to do). My current ammo box that could work is currently being used as my annealing box for blades and smaller work. There are two army/navy supply places nearby that I've been meaning to hit, though, as I was looking for a slightly larger box for larger work or extra boxes for more pieces in general, just in case. That may be a good enough reason to do it, then! As for making my own stand, I'm not quite sure I follow. Are you suggesting I take a sheet for the base itself and attach it with hinges to two other sheets? The V approach sounds like a balancing act without seeing an example as to how it's done. Thank you for that input, Frosty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcornell Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Get two INSULATING fire bricks to put under your forge and you won't have scorching problems. In the alternative, if you have a tire rim, cobble together a way to mount your diamonback to the rim (I'd do machine screws) and again, with that much space, I'll wager a doughnut that you won't have scorching problems. Insulating Fire Bricks (IFB) is kind of like Styrofoam, very light, and can be carved with wood tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibrariaNPC Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 But wouldn't those bricks end up getting crushed under the weight? The firebricks I made my first forges out of were of that material, and looking at it the wrong way made it fall apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I'm a bit surprised as well, but then again I'm also not as well experienced with these things! With the fire bricks and kaowool layed in place, and the temperatures outside (I work in the yard sans covering) hovering around 30 degrees,the underside of the table was in the 190-210 degree range after an hour. The forge was running at 8psi (max of 30), and I don't think I was anywhere NEAR welding heat yet (which this forge is technically able to do). My current ammo box that could work is currently being used as my annealing box for blades and smaller work. There are two army/navy supply places nearby that I've been meaning to hit, though, as I was looking for a slightly larger box for larger work or extra boxes for more pieces in general, just in case. That may be a good enough reason to do it, then! As for making my own stand, I'm not quite sure I follow. Are you suggesting I take a sheet for the base itself and attach it with hinges to two other sheets? The V approach sounds like a balancing act without seeing an example as to how it's done. Thank you for that input, Frosty! No, the folding stand isn't attached to anything. Visualize 2 playing cards taped together on the short sides so the tape acts as the hinge. Now lay them on a table on the long sides open in a V. Put a heavy book or six on the cards. The V keeps the cards on edge with a triangular footprint and even pasteboard on edge can support a LOT of weight and be as stable as the footprint allows. When I said ammo can, ANY steel can is good so long as it keeps the forge off the table. Heck, how about just standing the fire bricks on end with a couple more against each "leg" to keep them from falling over? Whatever you come up with as long as a forge is laying flat on the table the table better be seriously heat resistant. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpearson Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 forge is 10"x14"with legs across each end. Brick size: 4-1/2 in. W x 9 in. L x 1-1/2 in. H stack two bricks across each end under legs place one cookie sheet across bricks. stack two bricks on each end of cookie sheet. put forge on top of bricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Thomas had the correct plan. Go to the recycle, explain that you would like an old Bar-B-Que stand. I would be surprised if they charge you more than $5.00. The stand has 2 wheels = easy to move around. Take the lid off the Bar-B or just open it up. Take the burner parts out and recycle them. Put your bricks inside the bottom of the Bar-B, sit your forge on top of the Bricks. Job Done Finished!!! When you are finished, put the lid back on and close it. It still looks like a Bar-B!! If you don't build a box, you don't have to think outside of it!! :) :) Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibrariaNPC Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Now that makes more sense, Frosty! That could work as an option for easy storage; I'll keep that in the docket as an option when I get to Fazzio's or similar location with a metal selection. While I understand that any steel can will do, I do like having multiple purposes for everything due to those space constraints (i.e. my quench bucket is also how I carry a number of tools, my oil quench bucket is actually a turkey fryer, my table was built to allow both wood and metalwork of bladesmithing, etc). It's also just finding something that could work at this point. Heh. I'll keep the BBQ on the docket as another option in the future, but I'm already hard pressed to find a place to store it that will be secure (again, things have a habit of "walking off" around here). I'm lucky my cheapie charcoal grill has stayed, but the cover for it has already walked off, as well as one of my trash cans (which thankfully came back later that week, but still). I wasn't kidding when I said space was a premium and I bring everything back inside ^^; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I think, given all you've said, I'd stop saving money for Forgin' and start saving it for Movin'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibrariaNPC Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Sadly, saving it for moving isn't an option unless I land a new job (application process has begun). My wife, who also has a master's degree, is only able to find work part time (and is just starting at corset making), so my salary is how we're afloat. Half of my salary is gone between rent and utilities, and that's for a cheaper place in the area! The real kicker is the requirements of the job: township employees must live in town, so while rent and property taxes are cheaper just a mile down the road, it's not an option for me if I want to keep my job (no choice at the moment). The joys of being over-educated and under employed. So in reality, it's job hunting first, THEN moving. This process can take years due to libraries getting the ax (took two years to find this one), so until then, I'd rather keep up with getting better at forging than not learning at all. Sorry for the mini-rant; I've been getting a LOT of suggestions of "You should move," but it's just not in the cards yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 If you need more firebricks, let me know. I have LOTS here. More than I will ever use or need in 20 lifetimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I'd keep the BBQ grill in mind. Wrong time of year at the moment but by spring people will be buying new ones and the old ones will end up out by the road for rubbish pickup. I've got 3 of them in one week all to use for chop saw tables, two wood saws and one metal make neat units. I just remove the grill itself and use the frame. If you get one for free and should be an endless supply during the warm months you could leave it out and just move the forge part. My family is always calling asking if I need another one as they have seen one somewhere. Now that I'm thinking of it I can use another one for the newest chop saw for the new shop. Have to let the folks know. HUM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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