Jump to content
I Forge Iron

looking for information


zach124816

Recommended Posts

Read all the threads on IFI concerning gas forges. There is about 3 books worth of info, plus after doing a little home work, there are plenty of folks that will answer questions.
Good place to start, google jerry frost and t-burner. Once you do the home work, ol' lucky just might just answer a question or 10

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Read all the threads on IFI concerning gas forges. There is about 3 books worth of info, plus after doing a little home work, there are plenty of folks that will answer questions.
Good place to start, google jerry frost and t-burner. Once you do the home work, ol' lucky just might just answer a question or 10

He may answer 10 questions per your 1 question if you catch his attention at the right time!

-Crazy Ivan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ceramic blanket is likely your best bet. It's a much better insulator than a refractory cement. Make sure it's rated high enough in either case (2800°F or better). If you skimp on insulation, you'll pay forever in propane.

 

I bought my first gas forge. I probably saved a bunch of money that way. Experts can build on a budget, but a beginner is likely to end up with something unworkable where nearly every penny was a complete waste.

 

I will build my next gas forge, because working with and relining and tweaking that forge has given me enough experience to do that. I still plan to buy the burner(s), but that's mostly a time-vs-money thing. I'm currently enjoying forging more than I'm enjoying building forges ;-).

 

FWIW, I use Inswool (2 layers of 1") for insulation with kast-o-lite to "armor" the interior (about 3/8").

 

In finding books, don't overlook kiln building books. Glass and pottery folk face very similar issues...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"_Gas Burners for Forges, Furnaces, & Kilns_, Michael Porter,  is a do-it-yourselfers dream book, showing beginners how to make highly efficient gas burners inexpensively. These burners use simple gas accelerators as their central operating principle. All that is needed is a $2 MIG tip and some plumbing parts. This eliminates the need for a blower to supply combustion air, allowing the burners to be built in any size. "

 

In case you didn't find this by now...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want a budget forge build a brick pile forge. There are a lot of advantages to a brick pile forge but after a while most folk sort of settle down in what they make so a non-morphable forge is plenty enough.

 

Furnace cement isn't a very good choice in any event, at least in my experience. Most places where shipping doesn't double the cost of everything a sack of high alumna castable refractory is not only cheaper but works WAY better.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Find a junked gas grill and replace the center section with a flat metal plate.  You now have a place to build your brick pile that's movable and will carry the propane tank to boot. Or you can leave the center section in---removing the old burners of course and build your brick pile inside it and it can be stored outside with the lid down for protection

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As the bricks *NEED* to move as they heat and cool why would you want to bind them together?

 

Easiest way to build a burner is to buy one.  Not knowing if you have skills and equipment for welding or machining makes it quite hard to chose a method that would be easiest for YOU.

Would you still like the "easiest way" if it was twice as expensive as buying a burner?  

 

Note that blown burners are much simpler to build than aspirated ones but require a powered blower to use.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like you're good to go. As a rule of thumb you can bring a forge to welding heat with 1 ea. 3/4" ejector type burner for every 300-350 cu/in volume.

 

The more insulated the fire chamber is the more economical it will be, both in warm up time and fuel consumption.

 

Hard refractories or fire brick is durable but has a high specific heat so requires more time and fuel to bring it to temperature. It will hold it's heat better as well, so stock placed in the forge will not draw it down as fast or far making it more efficient heating the work.

 

Insulating fire brick requires less time and fuel to come to temp but has less in reserve to transfer to the work. It's also more fragile both  to physical contact, being gouged or scraped by stock in the forge, chemical, fluxes at welding temps tend to dissolve soft fire brick pretty rapidly and it doesn't like thermal cycling, tends to break up pretty soon.

 

Hard fire brick is vulnerable to hot fluxes as well, silicates are dissolved by strong bases so this is something to keep in mind selecting forge liner materials. Being so much denser than soft fire brick it will take significantly longer to dissolve in contact with hot borax but it will.

 

Refractories come in a number of types and forms. Most any industrial HVAC supply will carry or be able to order almost anything you want for a refractory. Ceramic suppliers can as well but they're in the business of "Art" so materials tend to be more expensive.

 

"Kiln shelf" is a high temp refractory and makes an excellent fire contact liner. Best it's easy to repair and replace.

 

Hard castable refractories can be formed however you're good enough to form it. Look for a "high alumina" refractory, it's much more resistant to hot caustics like borax fluxes.

 

The other main insulating refractory liner is ceramic blanket/wool like Kaowool. As far as I've seen all are high silicate refractory ceramics so hot borax fluxes will dissolve it like hot water through cotton candy. Seriously, you can watch it dissolve before your steel gets too cold to weld. It domes in different grades and temperature ratings as well as thicknesses.

 

Kaowool and equivalent products can be bought as hard insulating board. It's excellent insulation, easy to apply and repair but is almost as vulnerable as the wool blanket.

 

I suggest using 1" thickness as it's easier to form with fewer wrinkles and it's easier to repair. Kaowool is what's easily available to me at EJ Bartells in Anchorage. They routinely carry a number of thicknesses. My preference is 1" 8lb. 2,600f. but get the highest temp rated they have at the time I'm in.

 

Ceramic wool can be a PITA to get to stay on a flat surface, especially the lid. You can hold it in place with screws driven in from the shell or other similar techniques. I've had very good luck with my last flat lid rebuild by pleating it and skewering it. 1" wool, folded in pleats to the finish thickness is 2" and I skewered it through the pleats with SS tig rod. I don't know if the skewers are necessary but it's holding up well and it's more than 5 years old now.

 

A good way to preserve flux vulnerable liners is with a kiln wash. That is a good search term. It's purpose in furnaces is making them resistant to high temperature chemical erosion, prevents pottery from firing to the shelves and increases the IR albedo, infra red heat reflectance.

 

ITC-100 has been a favorite forge wash for years now but it's getting pretty darned expensive. It is or was kaolin clay as the binder/matrix with zirconium sand as the IR reflector. Mixing our own forge washes is being done by a number of us with decent results.

 

A good way to help design what you need in a forge is to build a brick pile forge and experiment. some smart soul revived an excellent how to thread for brick pile forges. There isn't much of anything I can add to that post, it's really worth the read.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...