KevinD Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I have about $400 burning a hole in my pocket and want a welder. Oxyacetylene just seems like the perfect mate to blacksmithing. I put oxyacetylene in the search function on this site and read all the threads and there are a couple of threads that really helped this n00b out. THANKS! I was wondering about the equipment. I'm thinking I will get a "mid-grade" torch set and just buy tanks from the welding supply place. Or would a port-a-torch be good enough for a newbie? I want to be able to do what ever I want and I'm afraid a port-a-torch will have limitations. Also I don't want to have to drive down to the supply house so often. What size tanks should a hobbyist get and how long will the gas last? General suggestions would be great. I'll be back later today with more specific questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candidquality Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 You've probably already read this but, Don't even think about picking up a torch without a lot of instruction from a professional. I can not stress that this is not something you just buy and start using. Please if at all possible take a class at the local college as it will give you some great information that could save your life, and the lives of those around you. I believe there is even a blueprint or two here that go into more detail and give you some of the safety tips. As far as tank size, the larger the better as the smaller ones won't even properly run a rosebud for long(safely) and that's one of the most common things you will use it for(isolated heat). The smallest portables are only good for jewelry as far as i've seen. I've used them and they are a great tool that definitely has it's uses. That said, I wouldn't have one at my home. If my shop were a separate building from my house it might be a thought. Please weight the risks and spend enough time to learn what you need to be safe. Good luck and let us know what you've decided to do. And be sure to show us some of your work when you get the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian C. Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Kevin- Don't bother with the little bitty torch sets (trust me on this) you spend more time trading out tanks than you do working. The only good feature is that they ARE portable. I sold mine and got the mid-size set, where the tanks are waist high or so. Much better, but even at that the welding supply house says not to run a rosebud torch on them due to size limitations. Most importantly, find someplace who can instruct you on the proper and SAFE usage of them. Oxy-acet. is nothing to be careless with. I keep my tanks chained to the cart and the cart chained to the wall. Kinda like wearing a belt and suspenders. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian C. Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Looks like Candidquality was posting while I was composing. Great minds. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinD Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 As far as safety...whats the worst case scenario as far as "hey yall, watch this" that can happen with O/A equipment in the wrong hands?Strange-Looking Car Leads To Explosives Charges - Denver News Story - KMGH Denver 2 really good threads in IFI!http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/still-welding-o-oxyacetylene-2102/http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/gas-welding-2687/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 AcetyleneMajor hazard : Fire Flash Point: 56 deg C ( 132.80 deg F) Toxicity (Am. Conf. Of Gov. Ind. Hygienists ACGIH 2000 Edition) : Simple Asphyxiant Flammability limits in air (STP conditions) : 2.4-83 vol% (The upper limit could reach 100 %)FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS: *Pure acetylene can ignite by decomposition above 15 psig; therefore, the UEL is 100% if the ignition source is of sufficient intensity. GASEOUS ACETYLENE IS SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUSTIBLE IN AIR AT PRESSURE ABOVE 15 PSI (207 kPa.). It requires a very low ignition energy so that fires which have been extinguished without stopping the flow of gas can easily reignite with possible explosive force. Acetylene has a density very similar to that of air so when leaking it does not readily dissipate. Gas may travel to a source of ignition and flash back. Reverence MSDS Sheets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Actually since you already have a source of heat for bending and brazing---the forge; I would think that an arc welder would be the best first welder to get---very handy for building tooling, anvil stands, tong racks, etc and can be used to tack things in place for forge welding---I like to weld a handle onto a billet so I don't have to mess around with tongs. I picked up an ancient lincoln tombstone welder for US$45 and it's been a great help in the smithy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerald Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I agree with Thomas, an arc welder of some sort can give you much good service once you learn/practice. If you do go with O/A, be aware that a rosebud sucks acetelyne out of your bottle at an astronomical rate compared to a welding or a cutting head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I have to go along with the idea of getting a decent arc welder. Then at some later date take a good welding class for the O/A. Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinD Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 Too late. I just blew $500 for a mid-grade torch and (full) tanks. $150 each for "customer owned" tanks and $169 for a Lincoln Electric kit from Home Depot. Now I just need somebody to show me how to use it. I ain't skeered...:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Check at the local community college; sometimes thay will have classes for folks who don't want to become certified welders; they just want to learn to weld a bit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinD Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 I'm definitely going to use extreme caution. My neighbor is a 30 year union construction worker and he teaches concrete form construction at the union hall. He told me that he has used a cutting torch many many times and that he would be more than happy to help me out. Also I'm a member of the local ABANA guild and I'm sure there is someone that would help me get started. I have read the first few chapters of Welding Essentials dealing with oxy/gas welding and cutting and I'm about to start reading Oxy-Acetylene Welding and Cutting by Harold P. Manly - Project Gutenberg and I'm not even going to try to hook the hoses up until an experienced torch user is here to guide me the first time. I'll be careful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdalcher Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 The newer sysytems usually have backflow preventers on them, MAKE SURE! It is possible to have flame backflow into the acetylene tank, since the oxygen is a higher pressure. I recently found an okay source for tanks on ebay from Indiana Oxygen, I paid $240 including shipping. The tanks are on the small side 80 Cu ft oxygen and 40 cu ft acetylene. I don't weld with this but it makes cutoff of larger stock much easier. Of course I also have a TIG, MIG, 240 v Stick welder and even a small 110 v stick welder. Each has their own special applications, though I use the 240v stick welder the most. Used welders are out there, you just have to look for them. My last acquired was the MIg and I paid $25 for it because the guy had lost the nozzle and could not find a replacement. I took out my handy dial calipers and measured it out and then went on a hunting spree. Everyone said the only place that you could get a replacement for Chicago Electric was from some defunct company in California and that no other brand would work. I'm happy to say that it just ain't true! Chicago Electric is not the greatest, but they are not bad welders for the money(especially at $25 for a normal $350 model). :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 GET a set of flashback arresters and USE THEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinD Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 Are backflow preventers and flashback arresters the same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinD Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 http://www.cbs.state.or.us/osha/interps/1992/valve.pdfhttp://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg327.pdfhttp://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg297.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habu68 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Never use a torch to cut a closed container, like a oil drum or tank. Unburned fuel/oxygen will accumulate in the closed space an it will become a bomb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinD Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 My neighbor came over tonight. We cut metal with fire! [Tim Allen] Oh oh oh! [/Tim Allen] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welder19 Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I don't own my bottles, to me it's not worth it, they are only good for 10 years and then they can't legally be filled, plus your stuck with what ever size you bought, if I am going to be doing a lot of torching, and know it ahead of time, I'll get bigger bottles when I exchange, and they are cheap, especially when you have oxy, acet & 2 argon, at least with the place I deal with, they cut you a break the more bottles you have. We have been dealing with them since the 50's, so that helps, I have the oldest, still active, account there. welder19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinD Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 My supplier wouldn't do that for a n00bie hobbyist... I played with all kinds of fire yesterday. I got my Zoeller burner going and used the O/A a little. I can't wait to get home from work this evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Hi Kevin. I haven't looked at the book you referenced, but habu posted a book on the Free Blacksmithing Books ... thread that I really liked:Oxy-acetylene Welding Manual - Google Book Search I especially liked the section on welding cast iron. By the way, these old books predate backflow preventers and flashback arrestors. And, they discuss acetylene generators, which are obsolete (at least in most places). I run a torch without either kind of check valve, and feel quite safe. I just do not do the more risky operations. No acetylene, no welding, no heavy cutting with high oxygen pressure, don't let oxygen go below 25 psi , let the propane tank exhaust itself on the forge (not the torch). If I need any of the above, I borrow a friends set with the combo valves (Victor). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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