rhitee93 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Well, the last thing I should have been making was a knife. I only have about 15 hours total time standing at an anvil so I don’t really know much yet. I don’t even have my own forge yet. Once yet, I didn’t have any interest in making knives when I started coming to blacksmithing meetings. However, after looking at some of the work on here, and way too many YouTube videos, I became fascinated with the steps involved, and had to try it for myself to see how it goes. I started with a piece of ½” square 1045. I know that is pretty low carbon content for a knife, but I really didn’t expect to come out with anything at the end so I used what I had. There were 3 forging steps that I wanted to get experience with this project: Moving the metal in one direction only – I wanted to forge this in a way that the spine of the knife is actually the original surface of the ½” square bar. Working in the middle of a bar – I have struggled with managing the fire in such a way that I could heat a bar of stock up in the middle. Since I hammered out the blade to an even 1/8” first, I knew I would have to get the fire right to draw out the ¼” square part for the handle or I would burn the blade. Beveling the blade – Honestly, this just looks impossible when I watch people do it, and I had to try it for myself. This is the result of about 2 hours of work. I’m not setting any speed records, but I was actually surprised at how it turned out. I dislike grinding, so I was trying to get as close to the net blade shape as I could. At this point I was starting to think that I might actually end up with a knife and was regretting my steel choice. However, I went ahead and heated the blade until it was no longer magnetic, and quenched it in water. Most of the references I found said that 1045 could theoretically get to Rc60 at the absolute max, so I didn’t bother to temper it. I don’t have a hardness tester, but a file skated right off, so I achieved at lease some level hardening. I’ll post some finished knife pics in a bit… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhitee93 Posted November 23, 2013 Author Share Posted November 23, 2013 Finishing the blade is where I really fell on my face. The only belt sander I have is a clapped out 1”x30” Harbor Freight special. I tried to go slow, and used my bare thumb to put pressure on the blade so I could feel the temperature. In the end I chickened out before I could get all of the pits out. I was afraid that if I kept going that I would overheat the blade. In hindsight, I wish I had left more hammer marks in. It would have looked better with the steel handle. Speaking of the handle, I treated it with hot wax. I wrapped the blade in a wet rag, and heated the handle with a torch until it went past a blue color and dipped it in melted paraffin. I don’t really have much in the way of polishing materials, so the blade still has a lot of scratch marks. However I don’t see a lot of point in trying to achieve a high level of polish on this one. It is what it is, and I plan on using it in the kitchen for however long the edge holds out. Oddly enough, the edge is still pretty hard. I started to create main edge bevel with a file, and it wouldn’t touch the blade except for a small spot near the tip. (I assume the soft spot got overheated during the grinding.) I ended up using the belt sander to create most of the edge bevel and then worked it in with a series of wet stones. Cutting Kiwi and carrots isn’t exactly demanding, but it cut pretty well. At any rate, I learned a lot doing this, and got in some good practice time. This won’t be my last blade, but I doubt that I’ll do another one for a while. Then again, I didn’t think I would do this one... My only motivation for posting it here is to be an example of what may or may not be achieved right out of the gate. There seems to be a lot of tension around here about people wanting to jump right into knives. Maybe this will show people why the guys who have been doing this for a long time tend to roll their eyes. I'm happy with what I achieved, but even happier that I have some understanding of what I have to learn to if I want to play this game for real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Patience is the hardest thing to learn. All told, you've got some experience at the forge, practiced some key skills needed on other projects, and turned out a reasonable product. You can't ask for better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loneforge Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Temper that blade please! Right from quench it is brittle and dangerous. Read HT stickies as this is very important for safety...1045 may not be the best choice for edge retention but it will certainly be tough. If reading doesn't help you here, send me a PM and I'll talk you through it. Getting hurt from a poorly Heat Treated blade can end real ugly....You're off to a great start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windancer Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I like the design and the style. Looks like a perfectly usable knife to me. I have maybe a dozen of my first knives all over my shop. When I start having problems with forging or grinding I take a couple minutes and look at a couple of them. I always go back to work smiling. Do get that tempered- This is supposed to be fun- not dangerous. Keep at it- you have some talent for it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhitee93 Posted November 23, 2013 Author Share Posted November 23, 2013 I guess my understanding of the tempering process is wrong. I thought that since I wasn't likely to achieve a very high level of hardness that there wasn't a need for tempering. It's been over 20 years since my last class in metallurgy, so I'll blame it on age... The charts I have seen say to temper 1045 between 400 deg. C to 600 deg. C to get the desired final hardness. I assume for edge holding I would want to shoot for the lower end of this temperature range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Yes, lower temper temp suggested. also note that you can get to a mirror polish just with silicon carbide paper and a block of wood. It just takes a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I guess my understanding of the tempering process is wrong. I thought that since I wasn't likely to achieve a very high level of hardness that there wasn't a need for tempering. It's been over 20 years since my last class in metallurgy, so I'll blame it on age... The charts I have seen say to temper 1045 between 400 deg. C to 600 deg. C to get the desired final hardness. I assume for edge holding I would want to shoot for the lower end of this temperature range? 400C is way too hot. 600 in either F or C is also. read the HT stickys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loneforge Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 · Hidden by Steve Sells, November 23, 2013 - anvilfire link Hidden by Steve Sells, November 23, 2013 - anvilfire link http://www.anvilfire.com/article.php?bodyName=/FAQs/temper_colors_hardness.htm Link to comment
BCROB Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I guess my understanding of the tempering process is wrong. I thought that since I wasn't likely to achieve a very high level of hardness that there wasn't a need for tempering. It's been over 20 years since my last class in metallurgy, so I'll blame it on age... The charts I have seen say to temper 1045 between 400 deg. C to 600 deg. C to get the desired final hardness. I assume for edge holding I would want to shoot for the lower end of this temperature range? I like the style and shape looks great, pretty sure you meant 400F and not C , you'd be much closer there..........nice work there rhitee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeshow Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Try different samples of the same size and shape at different temperatures. Everything I quench goes straight into a preheated toaster oven to back some of the brittleness off. Try different people's personal heat treat methods. What works for my shop might not have the same results for you. Remember your PPE ( personal protective equipment ) and have fun. Nice knife! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhitee93 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 OK, I was a bit confused after reading all of the HT stickies. In one of those, Steve recommends 320 to 350 F for simple 10XX steels. However, multiple 1045 data sheets I read called out "400C to 600C depending on desired hardness", which is sort of a dodgy way to specify anything. After poking around quite a bit more, I found a much more informative data sheet from another steel company that had the following tempering temperature/hardness data for 1045: 20C - Rc56 50C - Rc56 100C - Rc56 150C - Rc54 200C - Rc52 250C - Rc49 300C - Rc45.5 It looks like not much happens until around 150 Deg. C which would be be about 300F for those folks on my side of the pond. This correlates much better with what is in the stickies. I'm posting the data here just to help the odd duck who may need tempering data for 1045 steel. Here is my source of info: http://www.metalravne.com/selector/steels/ck45.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I got a 400 error code on that link: Bad Request Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand. Client sent malformed Host header Web Server at metalravne.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhitee93 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Hmm, I think I messed up when I pasted the link. here it is again: http://www.metalravne.com/selector/steels/ck45.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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