A2 Tool Steel - How hard to drill, harden and possibly normalize?

[Crunch]

Hello, all,

 

I need a dowel plate (for making dowels by driving wood through holes bored in the plate) and saw one made from A2 tool steel here for $55:

 

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/lie-nielsendowelplate.aspx

 

but I don't want to pay $55 for it so I was thinking of trying to make one myself.

 

I have a drill press and drill bits (but no milling machine or anything like that) and I see I can get a piece of A2 for maybe $15 on ebay, but my questions are:

 

1. How hard would this stuff be to drill holes in it up to 5/8" diameter if the steel was not yet hardened? Could a decent drill press handle it?

 

2. What about hardening after the holes are drilled? Could I do it myself with a propane or O/A torch and a Tempilstick? Air-hardening doesn't sound too hard to me, but then again I've never done it.

 

3. What if I buy the steel and try to drill it and find it's already hardened? Can I soften it by normalizing it, so that I can machine it? How? Would it need to soak? Does A2 steel degrade if it has been hardened once, then normalized (to machine) and then hardened a second time?

 

Thanks in advance for any info.

[Steve Sells]

if you are trying to annealed, its a pain. If it is already soft, then it is easy to drill.

 

I am not sure where you got the idea that Air hardening easy but ok,  have fun annealing if it is not furnished that way, I assume you have looked up the specs to see how to ramp the temps down?

[Rich Hale]

ASk before youi  buy if it is annealed..if so youi can drill it just fine...And whether it needs to be hardened will depend on the type of wood you are doweling..dense hard wood will need HT for the steel...You may try and harden it by heating it as well as youi can to non magnetic with your otrch...then stick it in oven for a few hours at 400f....I use A 2 quite abit and never have trouble with drilling or machining. Do not know if yoiur drillpress will turn slow enough to drill that size hole,,,but you can find a spindle speed chart to help you with that and most drill presses have a chart telling spindle speeds with belt positions.

[doc]

If all you need to make is doweling tool any simple carbon steel will work. Old files, 5160, etc: don't get caught up someone elses marketing scheme when all you want is a simple tool. 

[Crunch]

Thanks for all the replies. 

 

Doc, if I got an old file and annealed/normalized it, I assume I could drill it OK? Then after grinding the teeth off and drilling the holes, I could just harden and temper it by heating, quenching in water and watching the colors to temper to the right hardness...?

 

I've never really messed with hardening/tempering so this stuff is fairly new to me (I do have several good books on it, though). 

 

I had the impression air-hardening was no big deal, but Steve Sells, it sounds like you're saying it ain't easy...I just thought I could heat it to critical and let it cool in the air...

[Steve Sells]

A2 isnt simple to anneal because it is air hardening. There are soak times, at various temps as you drop for example 50F per hour...  how will you keep it at the various temps to ramp it down?

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

You can get annealed A2 from McMaster Carr or MSC. For you application, I would just get to a nice red, and hit it with an air gun, or a good fan. Tempering specs can be found online. I make small hole gages at work with A2 and just heat to red with a torch, and just let it cool by taking the torch away. I haven't tempered any yet for my applications.

[Stefflus]

I'm sorry that I'm not answering your question and instead going sort of off-topic, but my experience with dowel plates is not a very good one. I sometimes use it if I need a very small and short dowel, 4-6mm, but overall I think it gives crooked and rather too rough dowels. So I was hoping you would be ok with me suggesting a pencil sharpener type dowel maker, these can be easily made and gives the possibility of pilot holes.

[doc]

Crunch, 

   Yes you can do as you've described to an old file and it will work fine.But I would follow Stefflus's warning if you're planning on making long dowels. A dowel plate works well for short dowels,say like for shoe pegs or broom handles but not very well if you want something over 4" in length. 

[Crunch]

I just want to make short wood dowels, maybe 2" long max, for pegging woodworking joints. Anyone besides Stefflus have experience making short dowels with one of these for that?

 

Thanks again, everyone.

[rhitee93]

I don't have much blacksmithing experience, but I have been working with wood for over 35 years.  In my opinion, dowel plates are a fine way to make pegs for joints.  Especially if you use glue in the dowel hole because the rough/torn fibers along the length swell with glue.

 

Even if you prefer dry joints, a dowel plate can be made with holes of any diameter you want which allows you to adjust the fit of the pegs in your joints.

 

I do agree with the other that dowel plates do not make pretty looking pegs, but that won't matter in a joint.

[Crazy Ivan]

In your post about the file annealing, drilling, then hardening, DO NOT use water to quench! Files are tool steel and need a more mild quench such as motor oil, sunflower oil, olive oil etc. You will be best off with an oil with a high smoke point. There is an excellent part on this forum under "bladesmithing" with a section on heat treating. Knowing what type of metal you are working with is key in knowing the exact way to get a good hardness without risking a failed heat-treat or over hardening resulting in a cracked or shattered piece. Do not take my suggestion as a definite way to properly do this as I'm not sure exactly which metal you will be using (A-2, files, leaf springs etc), so read through the section i mentioned to get a satisfactory result. Also, be sure to temper the piece after quenching. Good luck!

-Crazy Ivan

[DanielC]

In your post about the file annealing, drilling, then hardening, DO NOT use water to quench! Files are tool steel and need a more mild quench such as motor oil, sunflower oil, olive oil etc. You will be best off with an oil with a high smoke point. There is an excellent part on this forum under "bladesmithing" with a section on heat treating. Knowing what type of metal you are working with is key in knowing the exact way to get a good hardness without risking a failed heat-treat or over hardening resulting in a cracked or shattered piece. Do not take my suggestion as a definite way to properly do this as I'm not sure exactly which metal you will be using (A-2, files, leaf springs etc), so read through the section i mentioned to get a satisfactory result. Also, be sure to temper the piece after quenching. Good luck!

-Crazy Ivan

 

For his purposes oil is a fine quench.

 

On the other hand, most good files are made from 1095 and W1, both of which do great in a water quench. Of course there are various mystery files out there, so oil in this case is the best bet.