Black Frog Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I saw a planter table at a garden center that I liked the general design of. It was cheaply made, but I liked the overall idea so I thought that would be a great learning project for me to do. Plus, my girlfriend would love this for her numerous flower pots everywhere.... I went with 3/8" rod for this project. I'm not using any jig for the scrolls, doing them all freehand. Of course this is taking me a LOT longer than if done by a jig, but is proving to be a good experience for me to do it the hard way. I started with the S-scrolls that go into the legs. Getting them all about the same was very finicky. I learned real fast how a little tap here and there can make a big difference in how a scroll looks. I put two different radii on the legs, and then the table hoop is about 16" in diameter. I intentially left some space around the small end of the scroll when mounted in the legs- I wanted to give the legs some "air" to them rather than being too heavy looking. I thought the space around the end of the scroll would maybe do that. We'll see when I get it all together. I didn't care for the original design of the garden center's table top. So I did something completely different from scratch. I sketched up several ideas and finally decided up on a tangential scrollwork arrangement from an inner circle to the outer diameter. 12 scrolls around the circle. I had no idea how time consuming this design was going to be.... First thing I did was taper my 12 rods for a guesstimate amount of taper. Then I roughly formed 12 scrolls to see if I liked the idea. It was at that point I realized I did not like my taper amount- it was too long of a taper for the scroll shape. So I undid the scrolls and started over from the other end with a shorter taper amount which I liked much better. Ugh, what a pain. That's why you'll see tapered ends on the straight ends of the scrolls. The next ordeal was getting all 12 scrolls to look the same (hopefully), and to equally fit and fill the circumference of my table top hoop. Then I had the bright idea to put a gentle reverse arc on each scroll to sort of give a gentle flow into the center circle. Of course this change how everything fit in the main hoop. Ugh, what a pain. I spent many, many hours fiddling with these 12 scrolls. Hopefully this week I can get the legs installed, and then start working on the scrolls that will be on the bottom of the hoop filling in the spaces between the legs around the circumference. I vastly underestimated how much time would be involved in doing all of this freehand, but it has been fun and challenging at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantofolder Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I think it looks great so far!! ....and it is amazing how uniform they are for freehand.Seems a shame for the top to be covered with potted plants. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momatt Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Looks great, will you weld it together or rivet it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Emig Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Coming from a guy that had the same hard time of hours and hours of fiddling around-nice job. Doing them freehand like that will really increase your skills with scrollwork. Good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 Thanks! And that was the point for me in this, to learn lots even though there may be faster and more efficient methods, like a jig. Haven't decided on joining the legs yet, I'm sorta making this up as I go along... I've had people offer to buy it from me already (which surprised me), so if I make another one or two a jig for the scrolls is definitely happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Greetings Frog, Only a few scrolls freehand... I just left my friends shop where he has been working on the same home for a year and a half. 1500 hand forged scrolls. so far... His work is dynamic.. Your table looks great and is quite an accomplishment.. Some of my best work has developed from the SWAG system.. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 I tacked the legs in place, the camera makes the legs look a bit unequal but they are right on. :) The bottom of the foot is located vertically in line with the upper hoop, so the feet are also in a matching 16" diameter circle same as the top. I'll be putting some circular pads on the bottom of the feet to finish them off. I was thinking of making some scrolls that go from leg to leg around the circumference of the table, but now I'm thinking that is overdoing it a bit. Instead I'm thinking of putting some gentle arches going from leg to leg as sketched in the 2nd pic. Or putting some arches that run from opposing legs, like two intersecting rainbows under the table to stiffen the legs up a bit in case someone puts a real heavy pot on here. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantofolder Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Awesome!! Now to make a larger version for a cafe table.....a piece of glass for the top,and two matching chairs. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Greetings again Frog, Just a though... Picture a 1/2x1/2 formed circle for the bottom of the lags that sets on the floor... I like the openness of your table and I think It would solve the wobble problem and add weight for stability.. I have done similar and also added squashed ball pads like chair levelers.. After all its the SWAG system... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 I guess I should also check with the little lady that is getting this planter stand to see what she wants! ....novel idea, eh? Thanks for the input! I'll report back with her, my, our final decision.... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyO Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 . . . as sketched in the 2nd pic. Whew! Thanks for clarifying, I tend to look at the pics first, and when I got to the last one, I thought, "Oh, No!!! What happened?" :huh: I guess, once a FIB, always a FIB, eh cheesehead? :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 FIB?!? Why you must mean "Friendly Illinois Brethren". ;) So I spent a few hours last night trying out my arch idea between the legs. And to make it look like the arches belong there, they have to be 3-dimensional arches in that they have the arch size to fill between the legs but also needed to follow the outward radius of the leg form. After a lot of messing around to get two of them the same and to fit nicely in the legs- I realized I didn't like it. So now onto the next idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 And here's the next idea. I think the table needs something else around the top circumference between the legs. I tried the arch idea and didn't like it. I think adding more scrolls in there would be a bit overkill. I was thinking about JIm's idea about a hoop on the bottom of the legs also, but (sorry Jim) the woman involved doesn't want a circle on the floor. She likes the delicate look of the legs. But I think the legs need a bit more reinforcement in case some beefy pots are put on there. What about another slightly larger diameter segmented ring just under the main table? This ring would be the diameter to match the outward radius of the leg, it would probably sit 1" lower than the table and run from leg-to-leg leaving the nice scrollwork inside the leg highlighted. Then adding the opposing arches underneath for leg stability. I could pierce the intersecting arches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Greetings Frog, Looks great Pass through on the arch and 1 1/2 squashed ball feet and your good to go Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backwoods Blacksmith Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Nice job. Reminds me of the French cafe style table. Ball ends on the feet and the crossover leg to leg. Don't need the upper archs. Did I say Very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I'm liking the stand more and more. I think it needs feet but if the customer says no. . . <sigh> I like the idea of a cafe table and chairs following the same theme. Well done and a half. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 Feet were decided to be some round pads, I'll clean them up when the table is complete. I added the internal support arches that criss-cross in the middle. Things are coming out nicely symmetrical for the most part, I'm happy with what I've got. I'm still undecided if something should be added between the legs on the outer circumference. My last idea of the larger diameter segmented ring was disliked and vetoed immediately by the "customer". ;) I'll show it to her now and let her decided if she wants more on there, or likes it as it is now. Then it'll be cleaning it up and putting on the black finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Greetings Frog, Looks great.. Try some thick large washers welded on the feet from the bottom.. The customer should be very happy. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 No, I don't think a band of any kind around the outside of the legs will add anything at all. The stand looks plenty strong and stable enough as it sits. At this point adding structural elements tells folk YOU aren't confident in your own work. They may not be able to SAY it but it'll speak to their unconscious minds and it'll bother them on a deep level. Of course there will always be guys out there who think adding more stuff will make it better but those folk rarely know much if anything about building things. I was always getting suggestions to add reinforcements to overbuilt things. A disturbing number of them were structural engineers too. <sigh> It looks great now, add the feet, tweak it to sit level and let it be. Most importantly be confident in your skills, THAT will speak louder than you can talk. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 I wasn't thinking of adding more between the legs for structural purposes, but rather for asthetic enhancements. It is now plenty strong and sturdy for most any pot. But I'm wondering if the corners where the legs meet top need a bit of something.... purely for visual purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I'd let it stand as it is but that's me. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 Ok, here's another question- I'm planning on doing a black finish on this. It will be used outdoors in a sheltered area (large porch) during the summer, and then inside during the winter. I have a weed burner to heat up areas on the table to apply a finish. Haven't decided on exactly what to use yet for the finish, but do I need to bead blast this first? Or can something like an black oil finish be applied as is? I've been reading lots of topics on different finishing methods, but I'm wondering if this should be bare steel before the application. There's some tough scale on some of the scrolls. Or I was thinking of brushing it down with vinegar every few hours and trying to wire-brush it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 For a proper pro look I'd sand blast and powder coat it. Any oil or wax finish will require occasional touch ups. Powder coating is pretty much bullet proof, is available in different colors and gloss-flat finishes. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Being outside is the bugger. For the outside, I believe you need to clear coat the final finished look. If you want to paint it a color, I use automotive primer and paint. I clean it with a two solution process for automobiles to remove the oils, and then primer and paint and maybe clear coat. As you can see, powder coating can be easier for you. Automobile primer and paint are not cheap either. If you go the patina, wax covering, you will have to reapply the wax a few times a year and that will not stop it from rusting. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 Do you sand or blast scale before priming/painting? With all the fiddling I had to do with the scrolls to get them uniform, there were many many heats and adjustments from the forge so I know there is some stubborn scale on there. I didn't want to get too aggressive with a brush on the delicate end of the scroll when it was hot for fear of deforming it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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