WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Penetrating Oils I received this in an e-mail today. I did Google "Machinist's Workshop MagT" and found the same information on several Machinist Forums. I don't know how reliable it is. I have also heard that anti-freeze works well. Penetrating Oils Penetrating Oils Machinist's Workshop MagT recently published some information on various penetrating oils that I found very interesting. Some of you might appreciate this. The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break out torque on rusted nuts. They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist. They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment. *Penetrating oils ........... Average torque load to loosen* No Oil used ................... 516 pounds WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds Liquid Wrench ...............127 pounds Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds ATF*-Acetone mix............53 pounds The ATF-Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is almost as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price. Steve from Godwin-Singer says that ATF-Acetone mix is best, but you can also use ATF and lacquer thinner in a 50-50 mix. *ATF=Automatic Transmission Fluid This actually works well, power-steering fluid also works as well as trans fluid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondacker Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Wayne, Most equipment such as bulldozers use fine thread on nuts and bolts, can be a real bugger to take a part. I have used all of the above except your home brews, Kroil comes in different grades, but have also used marvel mystery oil, one trick taught to me by an old mechanic when all else fails is to heat the nut & bolt red hot then cool quickly to the touch then repeat process, sometimes requires a third heat but seldom. Of course there are time when cutting or drilling out is required and replacing. This has worked for me over the years, I own as well operated some old equipment so repairs are the norm. Adirondacker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 The heating and cooling does destroy the heat treat attributes of the fasteners though... keep that in mind. If you use a little heat... no problem... if you heat red hot... the fasteners need replacement! The penetrating oil solutions are easier and less risky... if they work! Vibrating the fasteners by tapping with a hammer can help loosen the rust also and also helps the penetrating oils to penetrate! Just be careful not to rivet the thread ends when you are tapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Ed's Red rifle bore cleaner is a mixture of ATF, acetone and kerosene. Another formula adds mineral spirits to the mix. There are many cautions on mixing and storage as well as specific use as a bore cleaner. I do not recall Ed mentioning or suggesting it's use as a penetrating oil for rusty metal. I originally chased Ed's Red back to 1995. This "test" has appeared several times before. There are several threads on penetrating fluids on the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 I got this from a member of the NWBA forum. I had thought about the evaporation problem and planed to check it out. Saved me some trouble. I've been using ATF/acetone for a few years now and it works well. The only caveat I see is that the acetone evaporates so quickly that I haven't found anything that makes an effective storage container. You can mix up 4 oz of solution and come back in a week to find 2 oz of ATF so I'd recommend only making what you need for the job at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 From the mixing instrustions of Ed's Red rifle bore cleanerMix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal, chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPA approved plastic gasoline storage containers are also OK. Do NOT use HDPE, which is breathable because the acetone will evaporate. The acetone in ER will attack HDPE in about 6 months, making a heck of a mess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Liquid wrench I use alot for busting bolts. WD40 mostly for a light lubricant. I have wanted to try the Kroil but have not found it locally. Now the home brew, I'll have to try and mix up a batch. Sounds great and makes sence. Thanks for this idea! If you store it in a Acetone can, do you still have the evaporation proublem? If so why would the ATF make it evaporate faster in its own container? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I was the one who commented to Wayne's post on the NWBA site. I haven't tried an acetone container (because that's where I keep the acetone) but most plastic spray or squirt containers are not tight enough to prevent evaporation - so it's easier for me just to mix enough for the job at hand. Your containers might be better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Evers Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 When torque is in pounds rather than in-lbs or ft-lbs, I have to question the scientific credentials of the researchers. I don't worry about some unit sloppiness on the part of everyday posters. I do worry about it on a so-called "study". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I have used a ton of stuff over the years. LPS #1 works, liquid wrench works, MM Oil ( heat a bit and put that on , heat till sizzles, come back when cold). My current and no doubt forever will be Aerokroil. Perhaps the other thing ( atf) works well but I have aerokroi in aerosol and bulk, needle oilers and pump oilers. Restores lathes, handsaws, firearms. My story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Generally if you have to heat a fastener to get it to come free you better be replacing it anyway! Penny wise and pound foolish to reuse crudded up "damaged" fasteners. (among other things heating up rust dehydrates it and makes it take up less space so heating and then dosing with penetrating oil helps a lot!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 trick is gettin the hole empty yes Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I've used the acetone atf mix. I put it in a nail polish remover bottle.( nail polish remover has acetone in it) I used real acetone and atf,over time the mix eats up the nail polish remover bottle. The mix works as good as the store bought,but glass or steel storage is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Brake Fluid also works well. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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