Sakadt Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Hey Everyone it has been awhile since I posted anything, mainly because I haven't been in position to do much since I moved. But regardless I stumbled on to a gas forge on the good ole craigs list, that I couldn't pass up. While there are most definitely some issue with it, I think it will save me alot of time in building my own. Plus the main body was more or less what I was looking for. However, my knowledge on gas forges is rather slim, mainly because I use a solid-state fuel that can be seen here. So I guess more or less what I was hoping for was some input on this style of build and whether or not you guys have see anything like this or and input you have. Here are some of issues with it, If you look at the air pipe, you can see that it is galvanized steel pipe, which is of coarse a big no no, however if you look the pipe nearing the main body, you can see that the galvanization has started to come off or have been taken off with something. Regardless This can be changes out relatively easily. Secondly, the blower feeds directly into the main body, and gas line was ran straight into the little stem area on the upper elbow joint of the air flow pipe. And the hose just connected right to it. making it seem as if the air and gas work as one to keep it from coming back into the line, Unless there is something that I just don't see (burner device) inside the elbow, it just doesn't seem right to me, however maybe this is a design I am unaware of? :wacko: The kaewool is abit loose and worn, making is semi floppy, I was wondering is there are any adhesives that could be used to get it more form fitting inside of the firepot/cylinder (Not sure if that is the right term for a gas forge)? Or if it needed to be replaced all together? Aside from alittle rust, and the strange design (pipes and burner or lack there of), I think this forge is decent, the cylinder is made for 1/4in steel with shelves on both side and a hatch the can be opened of closed on the back side, for the need to work longer pieces. And the cart/stand is very nice moving in and doors of the garage. With a little work I think I could be pretty nice. Any knowledge or thoughts you guys have about this forge would be great! Sorry if the pictures are to big, and thanks again for your guys time. Best Regards, Sakadt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I would coat the ceramic blanket with something to keep the fibers from becoming airborne during use. Nasty stuff to be breathing. Coating with refractory mortar or similar will also keep it from sagging once its cured. The opening seems odd to me. I am used to having a floor to rest work on. It could rest on that angle shelf if its long enough to prop cold end on something, but small pieces would just fall in. Also, a smaller opening would help reduce fuel consumption. IMHO, it looks as if maybe this is an unfinished forge. The wool doesn't look like its been fired even, which may account for the sagging. Ceramic wool tends to get a little rigidness to it after it has been fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakadt Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 I agree that it does give off a that unfinished feel to it, and there are alot of thing I want to do to it. such as the opening but nothing a angle grinder cant solve. I'm not concerned about the burner mechanism want what I can do to get it working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 You really want 2 inches of ceramic wool That looks like 1 inch. Galvanized cold air pipe is fine. The elbow with the fuel feed is the closest place that should see "hot" If the pipe welded to the forge is pickled then don't worry about the rest of the pipe. I do not see an air control valve in the setup. Is there one on the intake side of the blower or on the output under the table? A ridgidizer/stabilizer is a good idea, better if it is an IR reflector too. A sacrificial floor is also a good idea so use of flux doesn't destroy the forge lining too quickly. Looks like a nice score overall, just needs some TLC. I hope the price was right. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I wouldn't worry about the galvanized pipe; looks like it was already dealt with, shouldn't get too hot toward the elbow with cold air blowing through it. If it works without a flame holder then Bob's your uncle. If you need on put one on. note that the bends in the air line help increase turbulence which helps with the mixing. I own one quite similar that was built in a Forge Building workshop put on by an ABANA affiliate and bossed by the designer. Works quite well. I light it with the air adjusted off, gas on and then add air until I get the loudest roar and brightest flame impingement for a neutral burn and then nudge it a tad to get a reducing burn if needed. I would think of adding *another* 1" layer of Kaowool and then coating the inside so you have 2" insulation. On mine the burner pipe fits into a slightly larger pipe welded to the shell allowing you to take the burner off and fiddle with it---like replace the pipe with a different on or try a flameholder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I say it is an unfinished forge the wool may be 2 in stuff . However , I would add another layer to that forge and then line it with refractory cement and would even consider putting in some fire brick in the bottom and setting them in the refractory cement as well . don't worry about the size of the insides being small after it is done it will be a very good Forge . I do not see the hook up / Hole for the burner to be installed the blower is to add forced air to the forge . it could be an awesome forge it just needs to be finished up and put to work . Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakadt Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Hey guys thanks for all your input so far! I found some kaowool from a local supplier to make it a 2 inchs all around as well some fire brick to make a base at the bottom and refractory cement to coat it all once in place. The red box indicates where I think the burner head is installed in the pipe, However how simple exact can it be while being safe for usage? Phil- I'm not sure if the blower has some sort of air flow control on the unit itself, but there is not along the air flow pipe. Also what do you mean by "A ridgidizer/stabilizer is a good idea, better if it is an IR reflector too." Sorry if that is a silly question just not sure what you mean by it. And the price of the unit was $150 which I didn't think was to bad all thing considered I think it will save me some time. Sam- The yellow circle shows the fuel feed port/ stim where the hose connected to. And it was just your basic clear hose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 ITC100 is an IR reflector and stablizer. Refractory coatings suitable to apply to kaowool are stabilizers, but not necessarily an IR reflector. Coating and stabilizing the surface of the wool will prevent erosion and airborn particles. An air gate will let you turn the forge down (throttle) instead of just having one, maximum temperature. You still need a fuel regulator. The fuel inlet can be flush in the elbow instead of portruding any and it will work fine. Some forges of this nature use a Tee in place of your elbow so assembly is simplified. If you are happy the price is good, I don't think my scrounging skills would have done better. (I am not good at scrounging and easy pickings are not known around me, scrap yards are closed, etc.) If it isn't obvious, weat long rubber gloves, sleeves, and a mask working with this, especially already fired ceramic wool. Fired ceramic wool is some of the worst stuff I have dealt with. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Look on the blower, looks to me that there is a white flat cover for the intake that can be adjusted to cut air off or on. This type blower works better cutting the intake than the exhaust. How simple can the gas inlet be on a blown burner *excessively* *simple* as all it has to do is dump gas into the system the blower supplies the mixing energy. As I recall mine has the end of the gas inlet sealed and a small hole drilled across the pipe; no fancy alinements or orifice needed. This does need to fasten a propane line to the gas line protruding from the top elbow. I would solder a fitting to the one on the elbow and get a propane line with the matching fitting on it and a high pressure propane regulator---like a red hat---from your local propane company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I think what the builder was trying to do is build a Hans Peot style forge. Here is a sketch of what is suppose to look like. This was the first style forge I ever made and it work fine. If my memory serves me it used a lot of gas. You will need to rework it a bit like the sketch and it should work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 It only needs some tweeking as already noted. As to your question about backfiring, that's where the fire travels back up the pipe and or propane supply line. That is not a problem with your forge: First there is NO air in the propane supply line to support combustion so it just can NOT backfire that far. Secondly, if the burner backfires it can NOT burn farther upstream than the propane jet where it'll run out of fuel. If the burner starts popping, crackling and just generally sounding like a gun fight turn it off, problem over. The only way a gun (blown) burner is going to backfire is if there isn't enough air flow and again, you end up with a really poor burn ratio so not much will happen. The short version is, it's NOT a dangerous forge, if it burns with a blue flame it isn't going to backfire. If it burns with a yellow flame it isn't going to do more than sputter some and you'll shut it off. Believe me, you WILL shut it off soonest. <grin> By not dangerous that assumes you WILL take proper precautions as appropriate with ANY gas burning appliance. It WILL produce enough heat to light stuff on fire up to several feet away, especially above it so police the area, no paper, cardboard, wood, clothing, etc. It will also produce carbon monoxide (CO) get a CO detector and mount it according to the directions. Keep your area ventilated and never NEVER use a propane burner in a basement! You need a regulator, 0-30lb red cap is a good choice. Buy some good fittings to hook up the propane, do NOT use tape, hose clamps, etc. Also, get a 1/4 turn ball valve for the fuel line between the regulator and the burner so you can turn it off quickly in case. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Acetylene is the fuel that can "exothermically disassociate" even without the presence of oxygen. Mandatory to have flash back arrestors on Acetylene systems. Not needed on a propane system using ambient air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakadt Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Thank again for all your help guys! I think I have a decent idea on which direction to take this in. Once I line it with another inch of Kaowool and than coat it in ITC100, what is the typical curing process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 You follow the instructions you should be given when you buy the ITC100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakadt Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 That should work :) thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakadt Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Alright so I took about the airflow pipe last night and played around with the blower as well. The burner tip on the inside is about .20 of an inch so just under a 1/4 inch, Which in my mind seems to big, what are you guys thoughts? Below is a picture. The Blower it self as not air flow control and when on is a pretty weak slow to being with. What kind of force do I need to have for airflow on a propane forge? If I have to replace my blower, could it just be a blow dryer or would I want something else? I also picked up some kaowool, ITC100and refractory brick for a base to as the bottom. Can I/Should I put a coat of the ITC100 on the brick as well as the kaowool? Best Regards, Sakadt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 If you want to take a drive down to Tucson I will fix it for you. I all the materials in stock to do it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Sounds more like it was set up for low pressure natural gas than propane as NG would have a large orifice and less air. As I recall my blower is rated at 150 cfm. I'll try to doublecheck that tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakadt Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 HWHII that would be great, what days would work well for you? Also what you do ball park the price to be to fix it to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 If you want to take a drive down to Tucson I will fix it for you. I all the materials in stock to do it right. Awesome offer for you Brother I would take it if it were me . and get some forging time with a fellow Brother Smith also . Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 HWHII that would be great, what days would work well for you? Also what you do ball park the price to be to fix it to be? Sakdat PM me and we will set something up! Or you can get my buisness number off my web site and call me or email me. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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