becabwca Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 hi i am an artist blacksmith, & after 3 years of planning to but never actually building a gas forge, i have decided to bite the billet ~& buy one....cannot believe no-one is making them over here! there are loads in america! so now i am looking at diamondback forges metalsmith forge: http://www.diamondbackironworks.com/2_burner_metalsmith.html which is much more than i want to spend, but i seem to have no other option, unless someone experienced would be willing to build me one?!! in return for payment of course.....and i would sign any disclaimer, or you could leave it unfinished or something....a flat-pack forge! or does anyone know where i may get a good one it the uk? i mean not a swan one & not for shed loads of money.... thanks. beca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I built both of mine at a forge building workshop put on by a blacksmithing group; way cheaper than buying a commercial one and being a group building project it dealt with the tools and skills issues. Perhaps you should talk your local group into hosting such a workshop? Otherwise; building the shell is fairly simple and easy, perhaps you could just buy a known good burner---easier to ship too! and build the shell yourself. Refractories should be available at places that cater to kiln building---or commercial boilers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 hi beca am wondering why not a swan? ...:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Hi Beca, I am too in the UK and couldn't be bothered to build a gasser, (shame, shame yes, I know, I got over it!) I'd rather spend my time forging than building a forge, so I imported a diamondback, even with shipping and import duties it worked out cheaper than anything uk built. I did search high and low for something similar in the UK, but came up empty handed- that was a few years ago. HAving said that the Swan forges are brilliant bits of kit, I tottally recommend them, I had one in a workshop I rented, and it was ace, I had the "mother" 4 burner, and did get through a bit of gas with it, but could heat long sections with ease, etc. If you have the money to splash out on one, do!! But I didn't, so I went to Dennis @ diamondback. I tend to think that it's because of regs and certification, insurance and liability issues here that noone builds affordable gas forges in the UK, I could be wrong but it's a hunch. There is a gap in the market here, it has to be said. I've got a diamondback double burner metal artist one, and I love it, the lining has taken a beating though as it's quite fragile, and I stick lots of odd, jagged, flame cut shapes in there, so that is my only issue with it. Mine needs relining now after a few years,( although I work part time) so factor that into the cost, so I have to use it at slightly higher pressure to get the same heat as I did when it was new. But I am sure once it's relined I will be able to put the pressure back a bit. Anyway, good luck with your search!! Let us know how you get on!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becabwca Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 HI -Beth-mainly due to cost; i recently won a prize & had sworn i would spend it on a gas forge if i did! but its still not enough to cover a basic swan & i would like at least 2 doors, & 3doors looks brilliant! although i think a draw-bridge type opening would be better. I know i should build one, but im really, really busy-2 young kids, i work part time & just dont have the time....the most time i get to forge/work at the mo is 2 hours so I need to be able to just turn it on & go-a firebrick one would take constant re-building i fear: lots of 'sticky-out bits' are bound to catch the bricks & rearranging them hot wouldnt be fun, & they also look a bit in-efficient! seems mad-the USA is much more liable-mad than us, but they dont seem to care about dangerous things like forges & foundries! there is this one other company with gas forges for sale in the uk: http://www.castreekilns.co.uk/blacksmith-forge-with-optional-door-1212-p.asp but its still more than the diamondback, with p&p, ~& not so flexible.... a stainless steel one went on ebay a few months ago for over £300...it looked 'workshop made' but i cant find anything like it anywhere.....wish i had bid more now! ill keep looking a little longer! beca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 beca i totally understand the need to be able to hit the ground running when you get in the workshop... i am a mother too, and these things make a big difference! i was going to suggest ebay i sometimes see them on there - a friend of mine years ago built on but it was big and cumbersome, and im not sure how he did it Really becasue i was not interested in that at the time, more the stuff that came out of it! i have a litle gas forge that i got from swan years ago, but somebody got it for a favour for me, and all that stuff - i dont know how much it would be now. they are very helpful at swan, i am nearby to them and buy coke off them sometimes, but i know it all adds up... there are lots of smiths from uk on here and if they notice the thread one of them may have something for sale too. i got my gas forge when my kids were much smaller, thinking it would be faster and cleaner and all that stuff we just said than the coke, but now, i only use it when i run out of coke, and it takes just as long it seems.... if i had to have one or the other it would def be my coke forge.. what do you use now? where abouts do you live too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Hi Beca, As Beth, I totally understand the 'really, really busy' bit!!! I have to say the metal artist forge is not that efficient compared to a more 'conventional' model of gas forge, but the clamshell design in brilliant for odd shapes and can't really be beaten for versatility in my opinion. Unless you make one yourself or find a deal on ebay you probably won't find one cheaper than those already mentioned. I know it does seem a bit odd about over here being more regulated than the usa, I'm guessing it's the European directives, they don't seem to be constrained by such things in the states. I'm in the process of getting a coke forge, will be novelty after only using gas for a few years!! I do miss having it as well, somethings are just more easily done in a solid fuel forge, I think it's best to have both really!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becabwca Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hi someone has told me to watch out for tax/customs adding a load more when buying from USA, does anyone know of this?! Ive a second reason for wanting a gas forge-I have developed a kind of intolerance/allergy to coke fumes, get a very sore, swollen throat & cant speak/swallow etc! so a gas forge s the way to go, charcoal will be a bit too expensive it think! im in south east wales, not too far from holme lacy college, where i trained, was thinking of asking them to build one! i must update my profile! thanks alot, still thinking! beca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hi Beca, Yes, customs add on import duty when importing from non-EU countries, I can't recall the exact amount but I think it's around the same as VAT 20%, (check with customs and excise for the exact amount) at any rate even with this added on when I bought my diamondback forge it still worked out cheaper than anything in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 can you get round it by getting someone to send it to you as a gift? i think this works sometimes.... worth looking into... i bet someone on here would do that for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 there is definatly a space for a gas forge manufacturer in the uk for hobby smiths . our gas forges here are manufactured to be used by farriers in their vehicles and as such have loads of features that make them a lot safer and more expensive than the US versions. I think most of these are CE requirements. gas forges can be simple and cheap to make . there are loads of versions of gas bottle forges and simple burners on the net. I too have not ever had the will to pay for a swann and have built my own forges and have some Vaughns forges for the school. Thats not saying that in the long run swann are not worth it as they are great forges. my main forge that has probably had half a tonne of damascus through it over the years is a pile of bricks. the environ of forge welding in gas destroiyes boufght forge linings so fast I prefer to have a patchable fixable pile..... I have made forges for friends but when you take the time and materials to make a good one you are up near swann prices so its not really worth it. I would find someone who has a castree kilns forge and ask thier opinion before buying one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 That is a tricky one Beth, my Mother in Canada sent me items (old toys, new clothes for my daughter, small gifts) and she declared the value for insurance purposes, UK customs took that value and didn't matter if it's a gift, I still needed to pay the duty on it to receive it. If my mother had declared the value at nil, I would not have had to pay, but she was being ultra cautious and over generous with what my old toys were worth just in case it got lost in the post and she had to make a claim. The value she stated must have gone over the allowable amount for a gift, at any rate the risk is declare it at nil to avoid paying duty, then you are not covered if the item gets lost or damaged in the post, or declare the value and pay the duty, but are covered if something happens. I am trying to remember how much the duty was on the gas forge I bought and I think it was around £60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 basher thats true - most of the swan stuff is aimed at farriers - and a bit of a pain for blacksmith use.. its the same old dilemma. do you try to save money by doing it yourself, or do you buy something off the shelf and pay for it by doing what you know how to do... theres not much in it most times :) yeah colleen thats true it has to be worth "nothing" i guess.. i would try to get hold of something second hand myself if i were you. good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hi Beca, couple of things, firstly to quote you Ive a second reason for wanting a gas forge-I have developed a kind of intolerance/allergy to coke fumes, get a very sore, swollen throat & cant speak/swallow etc! If you were OK in the workshops at Hereford, look to your ventilation ! I have had Swan, and Vaughns, and made my own to suit various uses, Like Owen said the bought forges are expensive due to the H&S regs, It does not take much to make a forge, I think one of the problems is that you don't know what you want the forge for specifically and are looking for something universal that either will be very expensive commercially, or unachievable from a practical point. The first one I made was because the Swan was not big enough (and it was a double burner) so I purchased three Bullfinch burner nozzles and manifolds from Calor, this gave me the option of 1,2, or 3 burners to use for heating, I also purchased the pipes and regulator, in total just over a £100 for the lot, I then made a casing up using stair treads and old refrectory bricks, which gave me an open front and ends (that I could block off f needed) allowing me to heat 6plus bars 16mm square and getting a heated length of some 760mm, I had difficulty keeping up with it. Think about what you will be doing in it, and make one to suit, they can be expensive to run as opposed to the coke fire, but they can also be economical in terms of time saved. I suffer from chest problems too, and find gas is also as irritating , if not more so than coke, coal was not as bad funnily enough. Whatever you decide, I should advise checking your carbon monoxide levels in you workshop where you are standing to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 great practical advice john! would be awful if you went to the effort and the gas was just as bad.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Sounds like some CO detectors for the shop are in order, as well as making sure of ventilation. Gas forges burn very clean so there is no visible cue that the air is bad. Consider the size of your typical work pieces, so you can get a forge that is big enough yet not too big. If you work a wide range of sizes it may be better to have more than one gas forge, a larger one and a smaller one. An overlarge forge is a gas hog, and a tiny forge is inconvenient. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Blythin Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Are there not any commercially made gas forges made elsewhere in Europe? I would think shipping would be less than overseas from the US ... And taxes, customs, duty etc. shouldn't be as much of an issue buying from an EU country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becabwca Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 oh thank you, all of you, for your ideas & thoughts, i think i will hold out for a decent 2nd hand one, & once i get going design one according to likes/dislikes & hopefully make it myself, one day.... yeah-my throat thing started towards the end of my training at hereford...seems to have been a cumulative thing & now i cant even be in a room with a coal fire (in various houses!) without some sort of effect. really annoying! I havent been doing a whole lot of forging (ie; none!) recently due to young family, but now they are a bit older i am desperate to get going again! I think once im back in it i will have more confidence in building one myself...hopefully! thanks again, I'll let you know what I end up with! beca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H&T Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 beca, The first thing I thought of when I read your post was the issue of carbon monoxide. Do not underestimate the hazard, There may be a possibility that you are particularly sensitive. Invest in a carbon monoxide detector. I have had two instances of nearly being overcome by carbon monoxide. The Oxygen carrying capacity of the blood can take up to 3 weeks to fully recover, so a second exposure at the same level within a short period of time can be extra dangerous. Ventilation is a serious issue and is often poorly understood and the rate at which fresh air exchange takes place is often underestimated. I won't go into long explanation in detail here at the moment, but your descriptions sound alarm bells for me. On the question of imports from the states, yes you will be liable both for an import duty which varies according to the type of import but I think will be 5%, and then 20% VAT upon the total of the value and the import duty.this appears to explain to me why the prices of American equipment in this country uses seem to equate to the same numerical value in pounds sterling as the purchase price in dollars, and if imported by the dealer there is the dealers profit margin to factor in as well. I have a swan two burner two-door gas forge which is a useful tool within its limitations. I am thinking of building myself another version or maybe two to accommodate different lengths and sizes. Unfortunately I am the other side of the country to you in Lincolnshire, otherwise I would offer you the option of combining efforts to build these forges. On the question of self building forges, and many other machines such as Belt grinders there does seem to be much more of a culture of build your own in the USA, and consequently there appears to be a better range of suppliers of materials and components. As in the chicken and egg conundrum, I do not know whether it is the extensive range of self builders that fosters the trend to have such a wide range of components suppliers or vice versa. In the British artistic blacksmiths Association magazine there is an article which clearly explains how to build a blown gas burner. I have got the instructions pinned above the bench, ready for when I have time to make it. I shall make one to exact dimensions as specified, and then I shall make another to a smaller scale. I note that this discussion started off over a couple of months ago, but I have only just read it. If you have not already resolved your requirements please feel free to contact me and if there's anything I can do to help, I will. Once again on the question of ventilation both natural and forced and carbon monoxide I could probably give you a greater understanding, so if you wish to phone me and have a chat, you may. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Would buying from Lithuania be easier? I keep seeing this guy on ebay and am curious. Product looks good, but I don't have any direct experience. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-DFS-1-Bnr-LP-gas-Forge-Knifemaking-Welding-Blacksmith-/110953842250?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d55d464a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowt Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I bought one of these from that lithuanian chap a few months backhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2-Bnr-LP-gas-Forge-Knifemaking-Welding-Blacksmith-/110980958343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d6fb0887 nice, but very simple little forge, does what it says on the box and I've used it with no problems or issues (apart from having to replace the useless russian regulator!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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