FieryFurnace Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 So I am working on some pieces for a store in Berea KY.....potentialy a good location if I can impress the store manager. Today I made a random candle holder for the store. I didn't have any plan. Just started cutting, drawing, chiseling, forging, and after five hours of work, I had this. I like it! I think, now that the first is done, that it could be produced rather quickly with slight variations. Maybe a two or three hour job. It took a heck of a lot of hand sanding. The candle cups are forged from 16-gauge sheet steel. The base is 4x4-inch, 1/8-inch or 3/16-inch plate. The chased scrolls were drawn free-hand, and then chased cold by hand. (Don't have the chasing hammer built yet.) Due to my experimenting with a new homemade monkey tool and the first half-way successful one I've made, the shoulders on the tenons were poor, resulting in me having to mig weld the tenon heads to the steel base and drip pans, to make sure everything was strong and remained solid. Don't worry folks, I'm still a traditional joinery guy, and I'll try, try again! The stand is 13.5-inches tall. The drip pans were 1.5-inches square and the stems were forged from 6-inches of 1/2-inch round bar. The tenons are 1/4-inch round. I probably should have chosen square to prevent rotation. Thoughts???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Great use of material, nice scale, good flow. I like the sanding but also try and get some patina on it before the finish goes on, wax? I agree it would make a great production item. The canvas background works well to photo but natural light works best to photo work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Very nice. I like how you chased a design into the base. Put some candles in it and make sure it sits straight. It looks crooked to me, but that may be a trick of the photography. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 I need to set up the lights in the shop for the pictures. I usually set things up and stick four lights at different angles, which usually works well. It's a lot of trouble though. I'm wondering what exactly you mean by the getting patina on it before the coating? The finish is glossy clear coat. (still haven't broken down and bought any Renaissance Wax.) The candle holder is SLIGHTLY tilted on purpose, to complete the flow. However, it is just BARELY off, and the candle is still held upright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 It could be the shadow in the picture merging with the top of the candle holder. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 http://www.camandcheese.com/index.php/do-it-yourself/56-do-it-yourself/88-cardboard-light-box this is a very quick and ez way to do a light box i have set up for when i have had to send out photos of glass work or pottery for the most part but it works just as well with larger items i helped a friend to one of these out of a box from a full sized fridge and it work quite well and was collapsible very handy to have around and cheap enough to make to burn after if you dont have the space to keep it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 A white pop-up laundry basket and a white bedsheet (since teh basket is probably netting) also makes a decent light box. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Why set up lights, just use the one you got, put it in the shade near the door, under a tree or cloudy day. There are many chemicals to develop patina, any oxidizer will work, just be sure to neutralize after, Birchwood Casey sells the chemicals for different colors. I would stay away from the gloss spray, Deft makes good low gloss lacquer as well Krylon has matte spray. If you don't go with the patina I use the wax with stain in it, brings back a nice warm tone to the iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 thats nice- like how youve done the base, the surface design and also turning up the corners. i have to agree about the photographing - i like to see a piece in a fairly natural setting/light, but thats just me. like the idea of wax with stain in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Is the sanding just to remove scale? If so I would look into a chemical method to speed things up. I've found that having a limited number of semi identical objects on display tends to sell them better---I ask the store to only put a handful out and then add new ones from the box in back as they sell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divermike Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I like it, many of the projects I do are the same ... just dive in, not much in the way of planning, however most of what I do is for my wife and gifts, no real commercial application. I just need to remember to photograph every step, and seldom seem to be able to do so. Well done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Is the sanding just to remove scale? If so I would look into a chemical method to speed things up. I've found that having a limited number of semi identical objects on display tends to sell them better---I ask the store to only put a handful out and then add new ones from the box in back as they sell... I normally do not do such heavy sanding and a year ago, I would have just wire-wheeled it. I took Mark and Mindy Gardner's class on chasing a reppousse over at John C Campbell, this past summer. Mindy drilled the hand sanding into me. It's as much to remove scale as to bring out the light reflection and the scale pattern in the steel. I doubt a chemical removing agent would give the light reflection and pattern of scale. If Mindy were here she would be grilling me because I didn't sand as much beneath the curls. She would also insist that I finish buffing wth 3-M scotch bright. And she would kill me if she saw I put glossy clear coat on it. (No complaints about the class at all.....Mark and Mindy were great! Just a heck of a lot of hand sanding!) I think I may try another one today. Hopefully be able to rely on just the tenons and maybe cut the time down quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spears Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hello Dave, I love the finish you achieved on this. I mechanically shine up my work wire wheeling with a 10” braided wheel on a ¾ horsepower Baldor buffer. I have been fortunate to get through the scale using that along with 4.5” angle grinders armed with braided wire wheels. It’s very labor intensive and at times I don’t look forward to it. I haven’t seen anybodies work look as good or better (except maybe yours) than the elbow grease/wire wheel followed by beeswax or clear coat (wax = #1). I get most compliments and questions about my finishes which I can honestly say is a major reason I do forged metal art. Wire wheeled wax coated hammered steel has a certain look of its own very appealing. It has been a real blessing having your pictures and reports on this forum to show the true work that goes into some of this stuff rather than only ever typing words and blessing the world with infinite wisdom of how it is all so easy. Your posts with pictures present a substance that speaks for itself. Many people are thankful for your efforts I’m sure. I am eventually going to try vinegar and water soak for removing scale to try to lessen the labor involved in wheeling and sanding. I will post the report (when I get to it) as to how well it works and what kind of finish is achieved. Maybe one of our kind members on here has done it and I just haven’t looked hard enough to find it yet. R & D pending…. Regards, Spears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I like the results pickling in vinegar provides. A few minutes with dish soap and a plastic brush takes all the scale off. No reason to not sand after the pickle if you want a different look. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have done some faux finishing (woodgraining, marbling, faux stone, etcetera) and I often use a little acrylic tinting in my metal finishes. I will maybe do a bronze or brass brush limned surface and then maybe add a touch of metallic acrylic to enhance the color or to get into areas where the brushes do not reach. I just add a slight tint to my acrylic clear coats for a subtle hint of color. I MUCH prefer a satin sheen to anything glossy though. It is hard to tell on most of my work whether it has been finished or is just naturally like that... but it looks GOOD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 i like the vinegar finish as well but i have had people ask to have items that have had highlights polished into them with the scale left on it dose give a more antiqued feel and its hard to get any way other than a lot of hand sanding but in the end you cant beat how it looks having the bright clean metal juxtaposed with the polished satin of the scale that has had beeswax melted into it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 I set up a sheet in the shop with a bunch of lights surrounding it and tried another picture run. It turned out better. Just for fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 i wish there was just a like button on here some where lol anyways its nice to have that side shot that is just one good looking center piece there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 i wish there was just a like button on here some where lol anyways its nice to have that side shot that is just one good looking center piece there I put that last picture as the background to my blog. My blog is linked in my forum sign off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Goodness that looks a lot better! You just might be mistaken for a photographer at this rate! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 i truly wished i had done a better job of documenting my work while i was doing glassblowing but many times i would be shot at the end of the night and i took photos of stuff sitting on work benches and the like and packed them up and off they went no matter how good the pieces were the tended to look like junk in my portfolio so i have tried to get on my own case about getting good clean photos of now now to show people when they are asking about a project or to see examples of past work anyways its nice when the quality of the work is shown to its best in a photo like those you took heading over to take a look at your blog now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ok I made another candle holder. I'll have to wait and set up the photo area again, but for now I took a picture of just the base. This is a comparison of finishes. On the first candle holder, the finish was Krylon glossy clear coat. (No I did not get a life-time supply of Krylon..... ) On this second one I used a wax that was given to me for experimentation by a woodwork artist at a craft show. I'd never heard of it, and it has sat unused for a year in my trailer. I decided to get it out and ty it out. It's called BriWax, is fast drying, and is applied cold much like Ren Wax. I like it. Thoughts on the two finishes? As an update on the candle holder itself...... The tenon shoulders on number two turned out better and more tight. I still have some work to do to get them perfect, but I'm on the way. No mig welding this time. The best part is I made a successful 1/4-inch monkey tool....I'm over the hump. I also used a palm sander to get the majority of the shine on the base. I still had to finish by hand-sanding. Also, on a great up-side note, I cut an hour and ten minutes off of production time, bringing the build time to 3 hours and 50 minutes. Still not great. My goal is between two and three hours. Is that reasonable? Lastly, I have NO idea what to charge. I expect to bring production time down to a couple of hours soon, so I can't charge based off of the first time of 5-hours. One of the members here once mentioned that they priced off of perceived value. So what would be the perceived value? I'm selling these to a store, wholesale, at 50% mark-up too. If I charge $60 than could an art store reasonably charge $120? Is this a $120 piece? Thoughts??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 as to the price i think it is depending on where you live that could be a $240 candle holder my town has a main street and thats about it but if i drive 45min west i get to a resort town and if i am in the mood i can drive down to stow vt and find out what the crazy people spend on stuff it is astounding at how much the price can vary by location i know i have a sliding scale on pricing partly after having the enlightening experience of having someone pay me half again as much as i had asked for a vase bc in their opinion it was worth more and paying more for it it some how made it better a side thought is what are your expenses like for this that is time+materials+ tools ? i know with glass blowing at one point my expenses were running around $120 a hour but a good chunk of that was from the power that was needed still it made me re asses what i was making per hour i don't know if that was the most enlightening chunk of a reply or not but i hope it helps as to the wax finish it seems a bit green(or is that just from the light in the photo) to me have you tried buffing it? my favorite finish is bees wax put on to hot metal and buffed when its cooled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 My current expenses are very low. Pretty much down to steel, welding gas, cutting supplies, and finished. I currently do not have to pick up electrical or fuel fees. My fuel suituation is fairly stable, but I would like to start picking up electrical as soon as possible. I do know that price is dependant to some extent on location. I've no idea what the potential for my work is in Berea KY. I do know it is THE CRAFT CITY of the state. Lot's off craft stuff there. The finish is not green at all. The lighting in the house is poor. My problem with bees-wax is being able to put it on the metal and still get a hand sand finish. If you heat the hand sanded surface, you'll get temper colors if you overheat. I use a bees-wax based mixture on a lot of my items, but not on the artsy stuff. I lightly buffed the BRIWAX with a towel, but that's it. BTW I have the business meeting schedualed for this Wednesday morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 i guess in that case i would say add electrical and fuel fees into your costs bc at some point they will be part of your expenses put that portion aside and have it to use to pay for equipment upgrades or to help pay the electric as well dont forget to add in the costs of new/replacement tools and equipment even if it is only on paper but down a list of your equipment what you would like to upgrade and what needs to be replaces estimate costs and try to work those into what your hourly shop expenses are it is always very easy to sell your self short but this should help you come up with what a hour or your time is worth i bet others out there do this differently but i tend to need this sort of reminder good luck with the meeting and i think the idea of having multiple finishes to show is a plus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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