FieryFurnace Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Here are the improved photos of number two and of number three as well. I forged another one today. This latest one took 3 hours and 45 minutes. Number 2: Number 3: on number three I used both the first and second pass butchers in the chasing. This gave the scrolls more depth. I also used the butcher on the aposite side of the scroll which also improved depth. Both of these are coated in the BRIWAX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Third times a charm Nice work, good photographs. Try and color correct or just B&W. How do like the Briwax? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'm liking thre BRIWAX. Not too messy, quick dry, and cool finish. Ok let me preface this with, I don't get offended when people make a negative comment about my work. I try to find the room for improvement and take that route if I think it is the correct route. I might get perplexed about a negative comment but not offended. So I went to the store today. The candle holders were on top in my box, so they came out first. The store owner, after viewing the hat rack (thread over in "critique my work" section,) toilet paper bars, paper towel bars, trees, leaves, birds, crosses, hooks, etc. says "The candle holder looks clumsy.....like it was made by someone completely different. I don't understand the cups, and it just doesn't flow good." ???????????????????????????????????????????????? Offended? no! Dish it out and I'll take it. I respect honesty even if I don't agree with what you're saying. Perplexed? YOU BET! If anyone knows that I'm not the bragging type it's you people on the forum. However, of everything I had there, the candle holder is the best looking, best finished, most advanced piece I had. So if you see some room for improvement in flow or whatever, tell me. Out of three candle holders I took, three came home with me. Definately didn't see that one coming. Interesting day though! Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 all i can say is try a difrent shop in the end it comes down to persinal taste and they might not have liked them and as a result did not want to carry them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I try and build work I would own, cherish and sometimes awe over first then if they let it go, oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Dont worry about it. Just shows that different people have different taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 OK! One thing she told me to do was add leaves to the current candle cup and drip pan. I suppose I could but I think they'd have to be migged on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 It may not be a bad thing to modify one of them to how she wants it- it will show that you can modify to what they want and in a timely manner. They may feel more comfortable sending you custom orders knowing that you are willing and able to meet their needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Everyone has their own opinions, so brush it off and see what you can do to make a happy client. Insted of trying to please them by reworking the piece do a quick drawing for them to see if you are really having a meeting of the minds or not. Print out your photo of the item they want changed on regular copier paper and draw on that. Do some sketches of what you think they want before you meet with them. Communication is the key. Should this now be in the "critique" section? Design wise the candle cup roll ups look good up close, but adds bulk to the overall picture. Even makes it lopsided at the top. To achieve more flow think of the bottom third of your piece as the base and therefore should be heavier looking than the upper area. Just removing the candle cup roll ups and making the area directly under the candle cups smaller than the area that connects to your base plate will lighten up the whole piece and give it "flow". Turn the piece and look for any flats or bends. Your piece should have nice curves throughout. Just one bump, like the area below the "X" on the right leg is enough break the flow. This could be a dimple or a bump or a bend, or in attaching hardware it can be the direction of the slot in the screw. I know there's no hardware attachment here, but as an example, if you had square headed bolts running down a piece they need to be aligned properly. They should be turned on the diagonal so they are diamond shaped. This allows the eye of the viewer to flow down the piece. If even one is turned square the eye hits that flat line and stops. Same is true of slotted screws, the slots need to be aligned with the work, not across it. Also I like to clean up any welds. If anything do more weld than you need and then grind it down to a pleasant shape. Use an electric die grinder if need be. Then re-heat the whole area. This will make all of the piece the same color instead of the weld standing out. Even in the candle cup, it's hard to do any grinding there, but at least re-heat it so it doesn't stand out color wise. For the time it takes to do that you may want to simply make a tenon joint. Any time the owner picks it up to clean it they will see what your welds look like so it should look as good as the rest of your work. I like your design concept, your technique and your latest finish, but a little tweaking can make a big difference. I hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Make a #4 with a different cup on it. Try for a daffodil type of arrangement, which would look good with that base and stem. You may want to add a couple accent leaves as well before assembly. Then they can be sold as flowers or as candle holders! (Let the buyer decide.) I would not alter the 3 you have as you like them, and have other venues to sell them. You also commented that you feel you cannot alter them in a manner that you feel is suitable, so DON'T. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spears Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hello Dave, Some store and gallery owners/managers will have in their own minds what they think something should look like. It will be an individual opinion of what they think the public will think is cool. Some of them are experienced and can “somewhat” predict what might sale better, but either way, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. An experienced professional gallery owner will know that an artist or craftsman is not a puppet with strings and will either accept what is presented or state that the work isn’t a match for the cliental. I had the same experience where a store manager talked about self standing items. So after making a couple I go back in there only to hear the owner talk about wall art with leaves. Needless to say I never bothered them with my beautiful work ever again. You just have to find the right store. As far as criticisms go, a fabricated item holds together whether it was forge welded, or Mig welded. You have a Mig welder so use it. A weld can be sanded so smooth that two pieces might look like they were just magically blended together. Same goes with a forge weld when it comes to looks. There is nothing wrong with disguising the fabrication method when it comes to art. If you want to try to comply with the store owner’s suggestions, then use your welding skill and don’t hold back. The store owner is looking to sell the result, not the method. If your selling traditional joinery, than you can expect the number of buyers to be LIMITED to the crowd who knows what that is and the value thereof. Good luck. Spears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Some very constructive replies and I thank you all! I would have put this thread in the "critique" section, however, when I began the thread, that sub-forum had not been created. I was not really going for an exceptional amount of flow or perfect curvature in the legs of the stand. (See the pictures of the second candle holder. First picture, post number 26) I wanted a more abstract, individualistic flow to each piece. I've seen pieces that are crookedy and jerky and look GREAT. Somehow, some people, know how to make that work. All of the joints in the candle holder are mortise and tenon. The first was welded, simply because that one was a little loose, and I have no torch for spot heating. I have migged and blended joints on fireplace screens. A pipe cup would make the candle-cup look smaller and perhaps improve flow. I am sort of "stuck" on traditional joinery, but I don't have the paying clientel for it, so by trying not to use the mig too much, I may be shooting myself in the foot. If someone wants traditional joinery, I want to have the skills to do it. Other times, modern techniques may be more appropriate. I have had no experienced instruction in when to use what/which techniques, so while I know traditional joinery and mig welding, I have a difficult time seeing when/where to use which technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 . I have had no experienced instruction in when to use what/which techniques, so while I know traditional joinery and mig welding, I have a difficult time seeing when/where to use which technique. Hi Dave,This is very much a personal choice and compromise of how you feel about a piece and how you reconcile it within your own self. So long as it is appropriate, and well done, you can still be proud of your work, if you seriously are not, then don't do it. Making production line items is a different ball park to one off or custom or art items. At the end of the day it's what you can live with, some have higher standards than others, and rewards and success are not always monetary measures. There are also times mig, tig or other modern methods are a better mechanical job than a traditional joint. Others may have opinions here for you, personally, I can't get on with the "arty" work, although it is easier to incorporate modern techniques into this kind of project. Each to their own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 I had to alter some of my pictures on photobucket, so here are the pictures of number two and number three again. (Moving the photos broke the link that were previously posted.) Number two: Number three: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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