FieryFurnace Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 So I'm thinking about purchasing some monkey tools. Seems they are the only part of tenon tools that I have a hard time making. Question is, which ones should I buy? Here are links to the two types that Blacksmith's Depot sells.https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/page.php?theLocation=/Resources/Product/Forging_Tools_misc/OPTC_Monkey_Tools.xml/https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/page.php?theLocation=/Resources/Product/Forging_Tools_misc/Monkey_Tool.xml/ Are they good tools worth the money? Or are there better sources? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Dave why are you having a hard time making them? When you buy them and see how they are made you will make them yourself afterward if you need another one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 well if you dont have a drill press.... ide go the cheaper one ...eather will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I needed a square one for a project 5/8" I just welded 4 pieces of steel around the size i needed the cut it square on each end it worked for the job. I have drilled in to the end of a piece of stock with a hand drill you just have to go slow and use a level. mild steel will work for short term projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Something to consider whether you buy or make the tool. In the days of wrought iron, tenons were made with fillets integral at their bases, the reason being that a sharp transition with wrought iron would cause breakage at the juncture. The fillet was made by simply countersinking the monkey tool aperture. When assembling, the hole (mortise) to receive the tenon was likewise countersunk thereby resulting in a flush fit. I don't do a great deal of tenoned work, but I have used this method with A36, and I feel that it won't do any harm, and it might do some good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Dave, the other way to go if the bar is short enough is to have a plate with holes in it. But with that you'll have to hammer the bar into the plate. I have drilled out monkey tools with a hand drill. Just start with a small hole first and keep increasing the size until you are to the size you want. With the tool clamped in the vise you can keep it pretty straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petere76 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hey Dave, Do you have access to a lathe? You can make a full set of round tenion sets easily or square . If you undersize the hole you drill you can heat the stock and drift the hole to square or rectangle without much difficulty. If you want square tooling, set up square stock in a 4 jaw chuck and do the same thing. Note that sometimes you vise the tool and hammer the stock. This set up favors square tools although you can make round holder for the vise and it will work just as well. Drill the relief hole oversize and far enough off the face for a good long tenion. It can go all the way through of just to the centerline of the hole depth it does not matter. I have a set of rounds I made out of mild steel. When the face gets deformed I just chuck it back up in the lathe and reface it; fast, easy and accurate. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 For sq tenons I have a couple of old deep wall sockets I use to dress them, by coincidence they come in standard inch sizes, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4... I probably spent a dollar a piece for them at the fleamarket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 You seem well equipped, and monkey tools are not high labor or high detail tools. It seems that in rather short time you can make a set or two of the sizes you commonly need out of good stock. I can see how a lathe would make this easier than using a drill press. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 for smaller sized round monkey tools, use pieces of thick wall pipe...I have some 1/8" and 1/4" like that. you could heat and drift them square as well. I would think you would take this as a challenge Dave and make a few.....ya know, blacksmiths do make tools.... ^_^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 No access to a lathe. I did a candle holder today that had four tennons. I made a quicky 1/4-inch monkey tool out of 3/4-inch round mild steel. I managed to get the hole drilled pretty square. Drilled the larger chamfer on the inside of the monkey tool, and used the sander to dress it up. Due to the work I have done on the band saw and the work that I did on the drill press to get both of them on square, it worked ok. I think I might have put in too large of a chamfer though, and as I didn't add a chamfer on my drilled mortise holes, the tenon shoulders aren't sitting very tight against the mortise holes. Having got one right, maybe I'll try to make some more. I'm a super-glued tight wad so I don't cherish the idea of purchasing monkey tools. No access to a lathe most unfortunately. Also no access to a torch, so my tennons have to be heated, and fully set in one heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Yeah Rich, giving up and buying is a little out of character for me. Part of my frustration with tennon tools stems from the large ammount of time I spent trying to make a tenon swage the other day only for the holes to be drilled through crooked after quite some time of work. I've failed trying to make several tennon tools and it's a lot of time wasted. Maybe my my luck will turn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You may want to get a small machine lathe. The many varied uses for them is beyond imagination. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Okay, most tools in the blacksmith shop have a name that makes sense. So why do they call it a monkey tool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 when one uses a monkey tool, you turn it as you are refining the tenon, so does this mean that while you are doing this you are "monkeying around" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 My first monkey tools I made by drilling the threads out of hex nuts and welding them to a piece of pipe. I have some old ones my Mom's uncle made by rolling a piece of flat into a tube and then dressed the end with a file I think. He died 40 years before I was born so I'm guessing about the file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong thing but I think the guy that came up with them was named MONKAY! Could be off though! Jeremy's story is better though! Oh small LATHE???? You're killing me. So far I need: a torch a bigger band saw a bar shear a bench shear a concrete pad a larger vise 2000 more pair of tongs and now a LATHE???? LOL I think I need work! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 As for making tendon tools, It is quicker for me to forge them than try to drill them. weld some blocks on the hairpin, heat it up place a rod the size you want in between, hammer it together with the power hammer, take another heat with a larger rod in the groove made the first time hammer lightly to relieve the corners. Now take the first rod and true it up. you may have to do this a couple of times to get what you want. you are trying to get a football shaped hole. This gives the metal a place to move into and not make marks from the sharp corners. Cliffton Ralph showed me how to do this years ago. It takes me longer to type it than to do it. If you use this method you don't have to open it up to use a grinder on the tool and then try to line it up again after you are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand Tatro Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Also don't you will also need a vertical mill (Bridgeport) and a pattern cutter to name a few more toys--I mean tools!! LOL. Last spring I finaly added a Majestic 3 burner gas forge to go with the rest of our tools. Seems like their is always another to buy and use which the need for another tool or two but that is what keeps life interesting. Armand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petere76 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Dave, It never ends. Always making or looking for tooling. I recall seeing a picture of Francis Whitakers traveling kit. It was small and well equipped for the tasks at hand. His shop however was loaded with all manner of tooling that likely reflected his life long efforts. That's what happens as you grow into the trade. Dont worry, your shop appears big enough for you to expand into. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Thomas great option of a socket for a square tenon. Will have to be on the look out for a full set. Jeremy great explanation. So if Francis Whitaker only needed a small traveling kit (granted he demoed in an other shop). Do we really need big full shops? Think of all the money you would save. I have seen old photos of traveling blacksmiths and they carried their shop on the back of a pack animal no 300 pound anvils. Maybe a 60 pound anvil, bellows, fire pot and few hand tools. really what else do you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petere76 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Francis, In the Maine woods business back in the day, the blacksmiths would travel with the loggers and stay close enough to support their operations. Thats primarly why you find the 120 -150 Lb anvils in such prevelance in this part of the world. They were easy for a one man show to move about. They drained a quary on the coast near here a few years back and on the floor of the quary they discovered among the old rusted equipment a sand box style forge. I assume the smiths worked in the quaries as well during that period. They all had to go to where the work was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Makes sense to travel, but why bring a firepot when a small shovel can make one anywhere? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob S Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Makes sense to travel, but why bring a firepot when a small shovel can make one anywhere? Phil What came first the shovel or the forge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Probably the forge, because hands and maybe a stick or rock can replace the shovel. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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