Which dimension in split cross controls the length of arms ??

[territorialmillworks]

I've got what I like think is the perfect dimensions for a split cross made from 3/4" stock. But when I scale down for 5/8, the arms are too long. I could just cut them to length but I want to avoid the extra step. My old feeble mind just can't figure it out...Any ideas???

[pkrankow]

The arm length will be approximately the distance from the end to the middle of the overlap of the two cuts. The top will need cut short at some point, and is one of the longer arms. The shorter arms are the side arms.

Phil

I can go all trigonometric on it too, it happens that the

(arm length) = (unsplit end lenght) +.71 * (the overlap of the two cuts)

assuming the hole opens up to a perfect square with the arms aligned perfectly at the points.

Phil

Edited November 4, 2011 by Phil Krankowski

[Rich Hale]

Yui can shorten the cuts a bit and it will shorten the arms. I prefer to leave all arms long,,the top one I step down and draw ouit..turn it to the back for a thong haning hook. The side arms I hot cut with the cut going from front to back..that ltapers the end a little bit and I like that look. I dont measure I eyeball, mark and cut.

[DennisG]

ok, not to advert for another site but.......

on another site, in the how to section, go down to 79 the C-cross, that should help


Link removed at the request of Anvilfire.

[Glenn]

If you have dimensions you like for any one size, you can get the same proportions by enlarging or reducing ALL the measurements by the same factor. For instance 3/4 inch square bar reduced by a factor of 1/2 works for 3/8 inch square bar. If you have 1/2 inch square bar and multiply ALL dimensions by a factor of 2, this works well for 1 inch bar stock. This is one area where metric measurements out preform imperial as being easier to convert. If you use imperial measurements, convert to decimal inches, do the math and convert back to fractional inches.

Or use a Xerox machine and enlarge or reduce your drawing and just measure the finished (but adjusted in size) product.

[thingmaker3]

To make your 3/4" numbers work with 5/8", dived ALL dimensions by 1.2 and you should be good.

[keithh999]

Howdy all...Im going to start making fredricks crosses for the Easter season and i would like to know if anyone has the cut dimensions for different sizes of stock. I have the dimensions for 3/8 material but those crosses are a bit big for necklaces. Am interested in trying 1/4" stock and some of the larger sizes for mantle or tabletop. If you would care to pass them on I would be grateful.


Keith Hicks
MMM Fab & Forge

[Glenn]

Using the 3/8 as a standard, proportionally reduce the dimensions.

3/8 is 6/16, and you want to use 1/4 stock or 4/16. That means 4 is 2/3 of 6 so use 2/3 of all the dimensions. Make one and see if you want to make adjustments as some times things that are proportionally reduced do not look quite the same, although the numbers are right.

[Ted T]

Fredrick’s Cross Apportionment.
Beauty is in the EYE of the beholder!
This is just my approach, very un-official

Here is an I Forge Iron thread with some information
http://www.iforgeiro...edericks-cross/
Scroll down to jimbob’s post.
He said:” the proportions work out to be for the short leg 1 and the long leg 1 3/4 of whatever stock you use... “

I do not know if that would be correct for, but it should be considered.
In the end it will be what pleases YOUR EYE’S!

How the cross is to be displayed has a lot to do with how much material (Stock) to use.
Again, what looks good to your eye will have a lot to do with it also.
The length of the vertical cut from the bottom of the cross member may vary.
And that is due to how the cross will be displayed.

Example: If it is to be a self standing Cross, then you would most likely have to factor
adding in enough stock (material) to form the base of your design.

If it is hung from a necklace, it would not necessarily have additional stock on the bottom end to form a base to be self standing.

Another example; Bill Epps made one out of ½ inch square stock.
He made his cuts down 1 inch and then 3 inches
When completed he had a thicker stock at the bottom of the base of the cross.
It will come down to what you like.

I would suggest you make a sketch and or then use CLAY to help you determine what dimensions would be pleasing to YOUR eye, and then go for it!

Enjoy!

[Drewed]

1/4" stock is hard to make crosses out of. It cools really fast and is easy to break and burn up. It can be done, just be prepared for some fails. Remember when split, it becomes 1/8" stock....

[Glenn]

Actually it is not 1/8 but even less, you took away some of that metal in the kerf.

But hey, your a blacksmith, and you want to be as accurate as possible, so be sure to measure with a micrometer first, and THEN use your 2 pound hammer

[Ted T]

Drewed has a good point!
When using very small stock, consider making a steel box (Hot Box) that is about 3" high x 3" deep X 5 or 6" wide, with one long side open.
Use at least 1/4" stock thickness.
Keep the (hot) box in the forge and place your small stock you are forging in the box.
Your small stock will be heated through the process induction and it keeps it from burning.
It also makes them easily accessible espeshilly in a Coal of Coke forge.

[Rich Hale]

I have made a lot of these at demos for key chain fobs. I leave enough stock so I can draw out the top piece and roll it to the back for a split ring to pass through. I use 3/16" stock for these, And used a gasser for heat. The first few will be a challenge until you get all the moves down and get a rhythem . going.

Edit: In thinking back I used 3/16" for some leaf fobs at that demo and 1/4" for the crosses.

[ptree]

I have made split crosses from stock as small as 1/4" and as large as 2.5" The bigger the longer they hold the heat:)
For the little ones I move my demo anvil very close to the forge and use a nice little hammer and they are no trouble at all to forge. Cutting them is a little tougher then the medium sizes.

I have forged these in steel copper, bronze brass and silver. Copper makes very nice split crosses.

[rthibeau]

When forging split crosses in copper, do you do it the same as for steel, or is there a different process ?

[JimsShip]

I see from that link that Marknagle made some from RR Spikes. Mark- When you cut the slits did you still keep the spike head?
I'd like to make one, but keep the spike head so I can flatten it to use as both a stand and a little votive candle holder.

[ptree]

I forge the copper crosses exactly like the steel, with the exception of colder and the metal moves wonderfully easily.

[Bad Creek Blacksmith]

JimsShip,

When we use railroad spikes we slide them point down in the hardy hole and flatten out the head with a 3 pound sledge. If you look under members projects there is some bookends I made with Fredrick crosses made out of RR spikes and have roses intertwined, same process then I cut them out on the bandsaw.

[Frank Turley]

Spelling. Wasn't it Christoph Friedrich of Switzerland, who developed this cross idea?

[ptree]

Frank Turley, I have seen some split crosses here in the US in an old grave yard. They were dated for a death in the 1880's if I recall. Made from Wrought, and had applied scrolls, but a split cross never the less.

[JimsShip]

Bad Creek, I understood the flattening of the head part, it was how to make the horizontal cuts at the had end I had a question on, but your suggestion did pay off! I found an old thread that stated after flattening the head, you cut it halfway and hammer it down so you can make the cut, the put it back in place afterwards.
I can't wait to try this! Thanks.

[Francis Trez Cole]

Fredrich was a 7 year old boy that dies Jan 15 1892 there is a documented about the crosses and a book called Iron spirits.

Friedrich's wrought-iron cross is typical of thousands found in cemeteries around the American heartland--from central Canada to Kansas, from the Mississippi to the Rockies. The cross represented the sacred; the iron represented strength--attributes of the pioneers they honored.
The iron crosses were particularly suited as prairie monuments: Unlike wooden crosses, those made of wrought iron or other metals were tough enough to withstand prairie fires, storms--even time itself.
Often, these wrought-iron crosses were crafted by local blacksmiths, in shops called "smithies." Using hammer, anvil and forge, these early artisans crafted crosses of iron, steel and other metals, often from pieces of scrap material. They worked in unlit buildings, watching with practiced eye the changing colors of the heated metal, pounding it as it melted, bending it until it formed the shape of a cross.
Many pioneer North Dakota crossmakers learned their craft in the Old Country, serving for years as apprentices to experienced smiths before becoming smiths themselves.
These crossmakers were of various nationalities: Irish, German, Hungarian, Czech, Ukrainian, French/Metis and others. But most prevalent in the Dakotas are the iron crosses of the Germans from Russia. These "Eizenkreuzen" were crafted for generations by blacksmiths on the steppes of the Volga and the Black Sea region of Russia. These skills came with the smiths as they immigrated to America.
Dr. Timothy J. Kloberdanz, associate professor of sociology-anthropology at North Dakota State University, is considered an international expert on iron crosses. Writer and narrator for the recently released documentary called Prairie Crosses, Prairie Voices: Iron Crosses of the Great Plains, Kloberdanz points out that these crosses often contain a human touch. "The iron crosses talk to us, they tell stories," he says. "These crosses have a lot of heart and soul in them."

http://library.ndsu.edu/grhc/articles/magazines/articles/winistorfer.html