brynnb Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I'm making a coffee can forge, and most every set of instructions has a soldering torch attached directly to one of those little 1 pound bottles. I figured it'd be a lot cheaper to simply hook it up to a 20lb bottle you usually buy for grills. The problem exists that these are two different types of connections. I have bought a hose that goes straight from the big bottle and attaches directly to the soldering torch. The problem here is that there's no regulator, and there's seemingly no way to add a regulator to the hookup since they're all designed to be attached directly to the bottle. So - can I run this soldering torch without a regulator? I was told the pressure in the 20lb bottle is the same as the 1lb bottles (which don't have or need a regulator) and that it should work. I didn't want to blow myself up, though. My backup is to just refill the 1lb bottle over and over but that's a pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I would say just do it and dont look back, propane is propane. If you are really worried ask your local propane dealer to be sure. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Propane is indeed propane. In a gas tight propane cylinder, the pressure depends on the temperature of the LP, not the size of the cylinder. So I can't see why running the torch off a BBQ cylinder would be any more of a problem (besides the fittings issue) than running it off a 1 lb. bottle. Those little torches may not even be designed to run properly on lower pressure, regulated propane. Might as well at least try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brynnb Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Thanks for the replies. If I stop posting suddenly you guys can assume what happened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah M Legel Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I'm actually really interested to hear how this goes for you, since I'm hoping to have my purchase of a short sale home approved in the next few months so I can move out of my apartment and set up a shop, and while I know paint can forges work fine with propane weed burners I would much rather have a smaller burner to save space in the garage . Try not to blow yourself up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyScott Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Well, it depends... my experience is with a Bernz-O-Matic JTH-7 torch used in a 2 brick forge. The torch/hose unit was designed to fit the tall skinny bottles. It will also fit the newer 'FatBoy' bottles. However, that fitting will NOT fit the connection on a 20 pound bottle. I solved that with a Coleman 'appliance connector'. It merely connects to the torch fitting on one end and has the POL connector on the other end. That was five years ago and I was able to find my appliance connector, made by Coleman, at the local Bass Pro Shop Outdoor shop. Recently I learned Wally World now carries such a hose. Cost less than $25 I think. Yes you can run the torch without a regulator as it is designed to work on the propane pressure in the bottle. Caveat: I could frost up the FatBoy bottle if I fully opened the valve to get some heat in the forge. At full throttle, a bottle lasted about 4 hours. Once I learned to reduce the pressure, I reduced scaling and the bottle lasted a lot longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brynnb Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Well, it depends... my experience is with a Bernz-O-Matic JTH-7 torch used in a 2 brick forge. The torch/hose unit was designed to fit the tall skinny bottles. It will also fit the newer 'FatBoy' bottles. However, that fitting will NOT fit the connection on a 20 pound bottle. I solved that with a Coleman 'appliance connector'. It merely connects to the torch fitting on one end and has the POL connector on the other end. That was five years ago and I was able to find my appliance connector, made by Coleman, at the local Bass Pro Shop Outdoor shop. Recently I learned Wally World now carries such a hose. Cost less than $25 I think. Yes you can run the torch without a regulator as it is designed to work on the propane pressure in the bottle. Caveat: I could frost up the FatBoy bottle if I fully opened the valve to get some heat in the forge. At full throttle, a bottle lasted about 4 hours. Once I learned to reduce the pressure, I reduced scaling and the bottle lasted a lot longer. That's the exact hose I had I believe, thanks for the verification that this works. I was under the assumption that a regulator helped even out the pressure and eliminate "burps" but that's apparently inaccurate. I have a pencil torch from Bernz, but it's the "jumbo" type which I decided to get because many people complain that a regular pencil torch isn't as hot as they'd want. I'm making my forge with Inswool, satanite, and ITC 100 so hopefully I can get it pretty hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Sure! My wife has a conversion hose like Randy's that she uses on her camp cookstoves and heaters... it is the same thing, a burner is a burner. Do NOT run unregulated propane into a furnace though as they are designed for natural gas supplies and even with a conversion kit they will only run correctly on about 4 to 6 pounds of pressure. When I was a firefighter we had a farmer who did this and the result was quite dramatic! The furnace was in a small basement area and when the space filled with propane that pushed through the valve it ignited and acted like a giant cannon... blew a hole through the floor, the ceiling and the roof! The chimney collapsed and the windows blew out! A column of fire and smoke torched out of the hole in the roof that we could see for several miles as we approached! The house was full of people at the time and it was pretty scary but the injuries were minor... VERY LUCKY that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Well a regulator is no bad thing for the reasons that you mentioned. They are available too as I have one for my cutting torch (oxy/propane). I use a coal forge though. In real cold weather some guys put their propane tanks in water tanks to keep the flow rates from freezing up. In the arctic at -60 degrees a friend said that it takes at least two of the small camp style tanks to boil a cup of water! I think he didn't know the immersion trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Plumber's torches are built with a metering orifice. A hole of specific geometry to allow a certain volume flow rate between an unregulated bottle of propane and the atmosphere. No regulator is needed, and they don't work with a regulator. I have used a plumber's torch with an adapter hose on a 20# bottle and it worked fine. It was just an experiment since I have the hose for my portable bbq. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 There are lots of options from the sporting goods supply to run camp stoves, lights, heaters, etc. on with a regular propane bottle. The plumbing supply to operate soldering torches with. And so on. Heck, call the outfit that supplies gas appliances, fills tanks, etc. they'll probably have the things. Heck, AIH the local hardware outfit carries the things. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwtf82 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 i just put together my forge and i was trying to run it with a plumbing torch and a 1# propane bottle. after a couple of minutes (5-10) it still didnt seem to be hot enough. is it possible the propane wasnt coming out of the bottle at a high enough rate? any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 i just put together my forge and i was trying to run it with a plumbing torch and a 1# propane bottle. after a couple of minutes (5-10) it still didnt seem to be hot enough. is it possible the propane wasnt coming out of the bottle at a high enough rate? any suggestions? Tell us about your forge. How big is it? How is it constructed, and with what materials? And what is "hot enough" to you? What did the interior look like after 5-10 minutes? Note that even relatively small forges like the coffee can designs generally use higher capacity torches like the JTH-7 (now replaced by something else, I believe). A standard plumber's torch probably won't put out enough heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I used to heat my 1 soft firebrick forge with a plain old plumber's propane torch. Note that the open area of that forge was about 3/4"x2"x4" for a total of 6 cubic inches. How big a space are you trying to heat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I figured it might do for a one-brick. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twcoffey Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 By all means use a regulator on 20# and larger propane tanks. You are dealing with about 100# pressure and only need a few lbs at the torch. Torch needs to have the right orfice for propane and a propane hose not acetylene. Propane will breakdown acetylene hoses because it contains petro compounds. Notice that all BBQ units have regulators (non-adjustable). Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Common propane torches like plumbers' torches are designed to run on unregulated tank pressure, Ted. We're not talking about an oxy-propane cutting torch or the like. These are not torches with interchangeable orifices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwtf82 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 my forge is a paint can lined with 1" thick 8# kaowool. i have a circle of kaowool that i propped against the front opening. I've got some refractory mortar on the way, but i tried firing it up anyway. i'd say that it's got an interior volume of about 100 cubic inches. as far as the inside after five or so min, it looked normal except for a spot on the wall opposite the torch, which had an orange glow. was it a mistake to try firing without the mortar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I wouldn't run it long without the mortar, but that's not what's causing your problem. I suspect your problem is just that your torch doesn't put out enough heat for a forge that size. A typical, basic plumber's torch might put out 2,500 or 3,000 BTU/hour. The sorts of torches that a lot of folks use for these kinds of forges (like this, and this) put out more like 10,000+ BTU/hr, and most I've seen use two layers of Kaowool, which improves insulation and also cuts down the interior volume of the forge. So you can buy one of the larger propane torches (preferably with more insulation), add one or more small burners, or try a homebuilt burner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Oops, meant to add a couple links to that post. Google JTH7 torch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackMetalViking Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 On 9/16/2011 at 2:07 PM, brynnb said: I have a pencil torch from Bernz, but it's the "jumbo" type which I decided to get because many people complain that a regular pencil torch isn't as hot as they'd want. I'm making my forge with Inswool, satanite, and ITC 100 so hopefully I can get it pretty hot. I switched from the pencil torch to the TS4000 which has a silver swirl, which I find far superior. My pencil torch took about 10 mins to heat up 1/2" rod, the swirl only takes a couple minutes. I find the swirl tip helps to kick start the vortex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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