Where to begin...

[JFCat]

I'm new to all of this, have yet to put hammer to iron. I am kinda wondering the best route to go. I live in central NC so am fairly close to the John C. Campbell folk school. I was thinking of starting my training there, however that's about $1,200 for a week. I can afford it, but just. Or, I could use the money for a beginning shop and learn by trial and error with some guidance of the local smiths (I understand there are a large number of blacksmiths in NC).

I'm old enough to know that a solid understanding of the basics will make learning much easier and faster. However, I also know that there is no substitute for practice and having my own (quality) equipment will give me the unreplaceable time at the anvil. Even if I go the school route I can still get a few hammers, hobble together a brakedrum forge and if lucky get a deal on an anvil, if not I can find some kinda of big metal to bang against. Because of the area I live in I may have to use a propane forge, and a home made set-up is $300 - $600, depending on if I make the burner (I think I'd prefer buying one as it is the main factor in forge quality).

Nothing will happen prior to the start of the new year (give or take a few months) as I am active military currently in Iraq. Right now I am just reading everything I can find on the subjects and locating resources to use once I start. Already panning on joining local groups and ABANA.

Now, changing subjects, I will also be joining the SCA, heard a number of persons here mention it. I had almost joined a number of years ago, but life happened and I never got the chance. So, now I'm stable enough and the wife is interested as well. I know this will be a good compliment to smithing also. So, how many of you are actuallly members? I read a post that someone went to Pennsic this year and there was a smithy set up, love to hear about that.

I guess lastly, my expectations for my smithing. I am looking for a business that will augment my military retirement (3 years left). I will be concentrating on small decorative things, fireplace sets, candelabras that sort of thing. As well as the sundery items for the reenactors. I may dabble in small knives, but not the high end speciality stuff. I may also shift focus to ferrier, depends on situation and circumstance. The idea of having a shop in the backyard that I work in is very appealing to me. My brother just retired to a hobby farm (25 acres and 4 horses) and I am very jealous of his lifestyle.

So, questions are:
1) How would you start your learning. Formal school or trial and error with (hopefully) the tutiliage of an "ole timer".
2) Who's in the SCA? Persona and kingdom etc...
3) Anyone in the central NC area (I'm in fayetteville) wanna help a newb get started?
4) Resources on the web I can use to get my knowledge up prior to comming home. Gotta be graphic lite as our internet here is really slow, so no youtube unfortunitly.

Lastly, ya'll would die if you saw the scrap metal lying around here. A tank (old blown up iraqi T72) is 60 tons of 24" thick steel and just sitting here rusting. Now, that's an anvil! lol

[ThomasPowers]

Can you learn from books? If so I'd sink some of your start up money into ones like The Backyard Blacksmith and The Complete Modern Blacksmith.

Your costs look a bit high, even buying a burner you should be able to put together a propane forge for under $150. At least here in NM I can get a tank in spec for $15 at the fleamarket.

I would strongly suggest finding a local smith that can help you out every now then. I tell folks that one Saturday afternoon with someone who knows what their doing can shorten your learning curve by about 6 months from trying to do it with a book in one hand and a pair of tongs in the other...

Don't get hung up on fancy equipment some of the best smithing in the world is done on setups folks in America would refuse to use! *Practice* is what makes you good. (I once did a demo on pattern welding for a fellow using a piece of RR rail as the anvil, a claw hammer and an improvised forge using charcoal sieved from old bonfires in the desert.)

I've been in the SCA for 33 years this fall and used to be part of Flaxy and Steve's bloomery team at Pennsic till I moved 1500 miles further away. Now I take my Y1K forge (and my coal travel forge) to Estrella War out in AZ and Battlemoor in CO.

I'm "officially" known as Master Wilelm the Smith, OL, OE, OSO, OLM, OST, OPF, EI, EI, O! Currently in the Kingdom of the Outlands. But usually I only wear my laurel medallion(s) hanging from my braided beard for special occasions and usually end up at laurel meetings grungy from the forge---my laurel scroll is a carved runestone my wife says will be my gravestone! (We had a crown of the Outlands where the Queen was a smith and ducked over to my forge once to have some fun before she got dragged back to the throne...) I started taking a forge to events around 1981 IIRC.

A well known Israeli smith uses tungsten carbide tank penetrators found in the desert from the 6 day war as material for punches and drifts. DU however does NOT work the same---pyrophoric for one thing. That tank is just *covered* in anvils that are a whole lot better than what the medieval and renaissance swords were forged on! Do think about getting some scrap metal to use in a pattern welded billet to make a remembrance piece from later.

Keep Safe and feel free to PM me for my e-mail address if you want to discuss anything privately. I'm on generally during the week and in the forge on weekends.

[Steve Sells]

from Midrelm, 20+ years. Some of my past teachers set up at Pennsic. Terry aka Grandfather owns Lithonia Forge, from NY. he was setting up on merchant row between archery field and the Serengeti plains. The other used to set up top of the hill by the barn, across from Midrelm camp until his passing last year, we was Bill Waynt aka Guillaume of Avalon Ironworks.

[John B]

Hi JF, my suggestion is to go the training school way for many reasons.

It will give you the hands on guidance of experienced smiths cutting down your learning curve appreciably,

It introduces you to good working practices and safety issues

It will give you the hands on experience on fire management and the most useful tools and techniques for you

It will give you the opportunity of identifying and using the tooling which you will need, rather than randomly getting bits and bobs that look useful 'cos you've seen them in blacksmiths shops etc

It should introduce you to toolmaking and the different steels and how and when to use them, how to heat treat them etc

It will also introduce you to the vocabulary and nomenclature of the blacksmiths craft

You will not be isolated during your initial learning period, blacksmithing can be a lonely craft and a simple guidance or support can make a great difference in the early days

You will also make lifelong friends as well as acquaintances

And many other plus points.

The money is a well spent investment if spent in the right place, you will probably get feedback from people on this site with personal experience of the school you spoke of.

Good luck in your new career, and I hope to see your progress long term with your questions, replies and items you have made being posted on this site.

Others have posted whilst I have been composing this, Tank track pins make excellent tools

Edited August 23, 2011 by John B

[bajajoaquin]

I agree with Thomas. I have found The Complete Modern Blacksmith and The Backyard Blacksmith to be really good resources for helping set the stage for the first steps of blacksmithing.

I also think that you would be well served to find someone local to help out. I was lucky enough to have the CBA program in Vista, CA available to me for $40, but it doesn't sound like your case is similar. Find a local blacksmith or historical society that does demonstrations, and get some basic tips about drawing and bending.

You can find an anvil for cheap if you are willing to think about anvils in terms of what they do, rather than what they look like. You just need a big hunk of steel. It doesn't need to look like something the coyote would drop on the roadrunner.

Which is not to say that the $1200 course wouldn't be money well spent. It would. But there are other options that will be effective for getting started if you are a little price-sensitive at the outset.

[Francis Trez Cole]

Well the Nc blacksmiths association is a great place to start.
1.) You will be able to net work and have help to find local supplies tools and stuff to make a forge and people willing t help.
2.) The State blacksmithing groups have grants to help with to school.
3.) the meeting have demos and classes good starting point.

The best advice I was ever given by a blacksmith was from NC he told me "Just do it". there are many pages of great info on this site

[pkrankow]

A single burner propane forge that can weld can be made from 1 linear foot of 1 inch ceramic wool (2 square feet), 1 piece of common stove pipe, 1 common fire brick, some plumbing parts, regulator, hose and single valve. This can be done for around $100 if you have to buy everything.

Get metal hot, find something solid as an anvil, and use whatever hammer you have.

As a shoe company put it "Just do it"

Phil

http://www.iforgeiro...-and-made-this/

[freeman]

1) Trial and error with (hopefully) the tutiliage of an "ole timer". John C. Campbell ain't going anywhere.
2) Who's in the SCA? Persona and kingdom etc...

I hope you have more fun than I did with this. It was a blast 15 years ago but times change. Fair warning: unless you're interested in crippling yourself for life, avoid (like the plague) heavy fighting. You'll hear a lot of gas about how it's perfectly safe yadda yadda, you can't find a Knight that hasn't destroyed his knees, back, shoulders, elbows or some combination of the lot. Good luck in any case.


3) Anyone in the central NC area (I'm in fayetteville) wanna help a newb get started?
I'm in the Triangle and I'm happy to help although there are smiths in Wendell and Fuquay Varina that are much closer to you than I am. Check out NCABANA.

4) Resources on the web I can use to get my knowledge up prior to comming home. Gotta be graphic lite as our internet here is really slow, so no youtube unfortunitly.

Shame you can't do youtube videos since nothing beats being able to watch someone work. In any case there are a ton of e-books linked on here and on google's free book search.

[Tom Allyn]

Can you learn from books? If so I'd sink some of your start up money into ones like The Backyard Blacksmith and The Complete Modern Blacksmith.

Another vote for starting with buying those two books. They've been invaluable to me.

I've only been doing this for 4-5 months. But I've read both of those books several times over. I built my own coal forge for less than $100. It easily reaches welding temperature. There's a scrapyard nearby that provides me with raw material.

If you wanna do it, start doing it. Then get out to demonstrations or classes when you can. Watching a pro work is a real eye opener.

[Drewed]

Books are good, but hands on is better. Most smiths these days are more than happy to help a noob out. Go to the local ABA or blacksmith guild and say HI! 1200 beans a week for class seems high to me. But that may be NY pricing. I got my start at the local living history place. about 150$ per class / day. Took 3 classes. That gave me enough no know that is what I wanted to to!

[JFCat]

After relooking at the cost for the gas forge I was a bit high, I added the price of the pre-made burner twice.

The school is $550 for 6 days plus $500-600 lodging plus materials. But, it has formal instruction from 9-12 (lunch) formal instruction from 1 - 4 and then open forge into the evening. So lots of hammer time.

I plan on building a large reference library, I will start with the books recommended.

I think my plan is to go ahead with the school. Getting the right instruction from the beginning makes most sense to me. Plus I will know what tools are supposed to feel like and have the opportunity to try out many different types. I was able to watch a few blacksmithing videos on youtube (a 2 min video takes about 20 mins to watch) and I see a huge variation in the skill and style from smith to smith. So, I may be able to find someone local to teach me, but that doesn't mean they know what they are doing. If I have the basic knowledge I can at least determine if the smith I am watching is someone I'd like to emulate.

I'll get a few hammers, that I can afford regardless. Anvil, probably just a chunk of steel (RR) for awhile unless something falls in my lap. Still going to go with a gas forge, simply because of the location I live. Once I move I will learn coal as well, time will tell which I prefer. I guess I can make up a burner myself, at least to start. I've been looking at the Ron Riel design, seems straight forward enough. The just a 10" - 12" pipe of some kind for the outside and all I need buy is some kaowool and ITC-100 and something for the floor (brick or board). Shouldn't be much, fittings and regulator will be the most expensive I think. I'd still prefer to purchase a T-rex, simply because I'd rather be putting hammer to iron than fussing with getting the forge tuned and such. There is a customer built bee-hive shown on the hybridburners site that I like a lot.

For now, I'll just continue to read and learn. I learn a lot from the posts you guys make on this forum. I look forward to meeting as many of you as possible in the future. If anyone thinks of a reference online I can read up on please let me know. Right now I spend most of my time here and on anvilfire. I've also read the beginning intros on ABANA, good stuff there.

[Randy]

I originally started with an old wagon smith who had learned from the apprentiseship system. After about 3 years on my own, reading books and practicing I finally got a beginners class from Frank Turley at a local school. I wish I had that from the beginning! The basics are so important. Learn how to run your forge, learn the basic hammer blows, how to stand, etc. I still catch myself today doing some of the bad habits I was originally taught. Get a good class from a great instructor first! Plus the class will show you what equipment you really need, or don't need, how to set them up and what to look for.

Good luck and have fun in what ever path you take!

[yves]

I just started a few months ago. I read books , the ones mentioned and others. I bough all the tools I could afford. I hammer as much as I can. But I will go seek the advice and instruction from an experienced smith in september. I have questions for him.

I believe the advice of experienced people should answer question you have. Otherwise some of the instruction is lost. We do not see the importance of something because of our lack of knowledge even if the instructor tells us it is important.

So I recommend that you start by heating it up and hitting it. Then seek instruction from a master when you know what you want to learn precisely, things like why does that bar twist when I hit it, things like that.

Good luck to you.


Yves

[Sam Falzone]

Truth is JFCat, either method can pay big dividends so follow which ever path seems right to you. Just because you decide to start with the school route doesn't mean you can't continue with a local mentor afterwards.

I've been in the SCA for over 20 years - located in Southern Ontario in the Kingdom of Ealdormere and I've been a self-taught smith for the past 12 years. My persona is 10th century Icelandic norse. I started in the SCA with the name Aeneas Oakhammer but after 20 years I'm thinking of changing it because it doesn't fit my persona at all.

I'm the guy who wrote about smithing all this last Pennsic - but there are a few blacksmith rigs at Pennsic these days. I know Solvarr (also an IFI member) had his forge set up this year and was teaching 2 classes. I hooked up with a great smith named Danr this year and I had a great time. I went home dirty, sweaty and tired every night and I LOVED IT !!! That's my idea of fun.

With all those tank parts lying around, could't you get someone from the engineer corps to cut you off a good chunk and ship it home to use as an anvil when you get back? I'm willing to bet no one else in your ABANA group will have a T72 anvil. I wonder what the steel specs / junkyard list is on T72 tank parts??? Maybe you could also start scrounging up materials to make tooling with. Think of it, you could call your shop The T72 Forge and have all your tools made from tank steel and your forge from a tank track wheel- now that's what I call bragging rights.

Seriously though ... Good luck with the smithing ... Come home safe.

Sam.
Hamilton, ON.

[John B]

Track pins should be excellent for punches and cutting tools, (The ones from the UK's Chieftain's are) don't take up much space either