SGropp Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Nice job! The rebar layout looks like it was done by someone with a ornamental iron background. When I poured the foundation blocks for my three hammers, I lined the pits with plastic sheet to retain the moisture in the concrete and kept the top of the slab covered in wet cardboard and plastic for a couple of weeks to allow a slow cure. I was told that this would result in the strongest possible concrete. I also used the chopped nylon fiber added to the mix. Is the top of the foundation block the same level as the shop floor ? What did you use between the floor slab and the hammer block to minimize vibration transfer ? That component seems critical to keep the pounding from wreaking havoc with the rest of the shop. It looks like this is just the foundation for one hammer. Did you back off of pouring a common foundation for both Nazels ? Or are you going to have to go through the same thing again for the other one ? Larry, please keep us posted as this project proceeds. This thread, like many that you have started on this forum has generated a lot of interesting feedback and solid information. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information and opinions about hammer foundations, with some people claiming that no special foundation is required and others advocating massive installations like the one you are doing. It seems as if the time, trouble and expense of a proper foundation were to result in even a small percentage increase in efficiency and less wear and tear on the machine and operator, that over the course of several thousands of blows per day , it is worth it. I'm still not sure of the physics between the wood or rubber or high tech plastic pad under the anvil of the hammer and the massive concrete block beneath it. It seems as if it would partially negate the value of all that mass under the anvil, but I can't imagine that it would be advisable to set the anvil directly onto a hard unyielding surface. I have an old set of factory foundation plans for a 300# Beaudry mechanical hammer that calls for a massive built up block of oak timbers on end sitting on a raft of oak beams , all set below floor level, with no concrete at all. It seems as if the theory and practice was to have the mass and support of a large and deep foundation but to allow some slight elasticity in the whole setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Looking good Larry. Good to see it coming together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Nice job Larry. Like Mark said, you can use additives like super-p (plasticizer) that aids in flow, cure, and sometimes even in strength. If it is going to sit for a while, cover it in burlap and keep it wet, a "wet cure" will give a slower cure and supposed stronger concrete. I just finished a water treatment plant, it was in the specs that everything be wet cured for 7 days. I saw very minimal cracking as opposed to other projects that didn't require wet cure. Next time call me, i can tie a footing like that in 6 hours by myself! My record for rebar is almost 20,000 pounds placed by myself in one day! Of course that was big bar, but i did have to punk that stuff on my shoulder all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Concrete has a 28 day cure, With all the anchors in this it would be foolish to torque them and run the hammer and risk breaking them loose from the 'crete while it is still green. There is a lot to do to yet setting and wiring the machine, about a week is how long I would wait to set the weight of the machine on the footing (but not hammer with it). Rob I guess I should have said usually concrete has a 28 day cure. With special addmixtures , hardeners, water reducers etc you can just about make it do whatever you want, but it will do it by itself anyway without all that stuff, $$$. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Nice job Larry. Like Mark said, you can use additives like super-p (plasticizer) that aids in flow, cure, and sometimes even in strength. If it is going to sit for a while, cover it in burlap and keep it wet, a "wet cure" will give a slower and supposed stronger concrete. I just finished a water treatment plant, it was in the specs that everything be wet cured for 7 days. I saw very minimal cracking as opposed to other projects that didn't require wet cure. Next time call me, i can tie a footing like that in 6 hours by myself! My record for rebar is almost 20,000 pounds placed by myself in one day! Of course that was big bar, but i did have to punk that stuff on my shoulder all day. Pretty much every job that I bid on now references the CSA (Canadian Standards Association). That standard requires a full 7 day cure for all concrete pours. The methods are the wet burlap and plastic as Brian mentions, or keeping the rh at 100% around the concrete, or with a spray-on curing compound. For large foundations (>5 feet thick), you also want to keep the temperature of the concrete down in the core so there isn't too much temperature difference between the core and the surface. The mass pours generate a lot of heat in the hydration process. What we usually do is tie coolant lines into the rebar cages. Once the concrete is poured we circulate cooled glycol through the lines for the curing period. When the cure period is complete we cut off the coolant lines and grout the closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Traylor Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Take a look at the foundation plans for the large Little Giants in their web site. I used a belting from Texas Belting and Mill Supply in Houston for a pad under my 100 lb LG. Holding up well for a couple of years. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Sounds like an adventure Larry...watch how the height changes during the cure...not that you can do anything about it, but.... and do keep it wet or at least covered. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Randomly came across these guys on you tube, they seem to know about forging hammer isolation. Also some nice footage of some BIG hammers working, BIG hammers. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Well something quite strange happened over the weekend.. The salesman from Fabreeka called me and ask how much I was planing on spending (I said in an email that the quote was three times what I expected)... I told him I was figuring on $1000... He called me back and said "ok" so the price went from $3200 to $1095.... So I am ordering a pad this morning... Still will have to do something for the frame, I think Baltic birch is the thing for that application given what others have said.. Talking with Jim Garret from Nimba anvils over the weekend... he showed me a chunk of pad that a 300 lb Chambersberg came on that he thinks is Fabreeka.. He also said that when they moved Russel Jaqua's 750 pound hammer the oak timbers where rotted away after just 5 years (remember this is wet country) I really think in the long run a grand for the pad is a good investment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Well something quite strange happened over the weekend.. The salesman from Fabreeka called me and ask how much I was planing on spending (I said in an email that the quote was three times what I expected)... I told him I was figuring on $1000... He called me back and said "ok" so the price went from $3200 to $1095.... So I am ordering a pad this morning... Still will have to do something for the frame, I think Baltic birch is the thing for that application given what others have said.. Talking with Jim Garret from Nimba anvils over the weekend... he showed me a chunk of pad that a 300 lb Chambersberg came on that he thinks is Fabreeka.. He also said that when they moved Russel Jaqua's 750 pound hammer the oak timbers where rotted away after just 5 years (remember this is wet country) I really think in the long run a grand for the pad is a good investment... I had a similar thing happen when I bought the 30hp motor for my hammer. I paid less than half what I was first quoted without trying really hard to push the price down. Its probably worth the $1000 and you can always take it with you if you move the hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Talking with Jim Garret from Nimba anvils over the weekend... he showed me a chunk of pad that a 300 lb Chambersberg came on that he thinks is Fabreeka.. He also said that when they moved Russel Jaqua's 750 pound hammer the oak timbers where rotted away after just 5 years (remember this is wet country) I really think in the long run a grand for the pad is a good investment... My 3B has marked its territory like a Harley motorcycle..I do not think the oak under my hammer would rot anymore...maybe I will squeeze the oil out one day and pour it back in the hammer. I did worry about the wood on the concrete so I tarred the underside and did wrap of plastic..so it acts like a pool liner now I guess. good score on the Fabreeka. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 This is all looking very nice! I think on hammers like yours concrete is the way to go, and you have done it super fast & neat :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 Well today the cost of the foundation officially exceeded the cost of the hammer.. I got the Fabreeka pad ordered and bought $450 worth of what they claimed was as good as baltic birch ( evidently the Baltic Birch is a Russian product and for some reason there is a world wide shortage so its unavailable) The stuff I got is called Applely and is a 17 ply hardwood in 1" thickness.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Putting in the foundation for my new hammer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 I think that might be a bit of overkill for a 75lb hammer Grant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Larry, I'm a great fan of big kit etc. but have you thought that sometimes one overengineers a bit, or does your 4B have the "optional " extra 6" gun turett Ian P.s. Grant ol Osama's boys recon he won't need that 'Holliday basement' anymore! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I have not used the Applely but I have heard it is similar. I only pay about $45 per 5x5 sheet of the Baltic but I buy it by the lift for mounting patterns on and using in building them. I spent almost 3 times the hammer cost in installing mine. Now I did have to buy a used motor and pay riggers as I didn't have a big forklift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 I have not used the Applely but I have heard it is similar. I only pay about $45 per 5x5 sheet of the Baltic but I buy it by the lift for mounting patterns on and using in building them. I spent almost 3 times the hammer cost in installing mine. Now I did have to buy a used motor and pay riggers as I didn't have a big forklift. They had 5/8 in 5 x 5 's of the Baltic Birch but not enough to make a tall enough stack.. This stuff was $200/ 4 X 8 sheet for 1" thick.. It seemed plenty costly but its arguably one of the more important aspects of the install and only 10% of the cost so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 I bought a chunk of 4340 for a new lower die... $281 for a 8" round 9.5" long.... thats a delivered price from Pacific tool steel... I figure it must be around 150lbs which would put it at less than $2/lb seems like a great deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.