Guest Low-Alloy Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Has anyone in the US ever bought the Frabreeza isolation pad? Not the answer to your question, but from what I've heard that stuff is very expensive--how expensive?, don't know. But, I'd think a thick sheet of UHMW plastic and conveyor belting would make a great isolation pad. UHMW plastic has the highest impact strength of the thermal plastics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene" and like rubber matting would be generally impervious to rotting. Two, or more, different vibration absorbing materials really kills vibrations as the sound wave travels through the first material at its natural frequency then has to change to a different frequency in another different material. The change in "frequencies" takes more energy to accomplish, thus dampening the vibration more that just a single homogeneous material would. You probably know this, but I thought I'd put it out there for consideration. Cheers!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 I like the low resinating frequency, puts me to sleep :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 I know it is common to put conveyor belting under hammer anvils and I did but I am now not so sure it is a good idea. John Nicholson from Massey tells me it adds some "bounce" to the bottom die which is not a good thing. I do feel my bottom die is bouncier than I would like which can make it hard to keep stuff on there or steel in swages or stamps. Without having anything to compare it to I am not sure if the 1/2" of belting is a problem or if the bounce I get is normal. John mentioned to me the Fabreeka is like a hardwood plywood rather than like a belting. If I were installing my hammer today I would bite the bullet and buy the Fabreeka, or I would put in a sheet of Baltic birch plywood which is really tough hardwood plywood with the plies about 1/16" thick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KST1-Derek Fultz Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 This conversation is way out of my league, so take this for what it's worth... You might consider horse stall mats as part of your isolation system. They come in 4'x6' sheets, are about 3/4" thick and are super durable. Most farm supply stores will have some in stock. I bought a couple a few years back for ~$35 each. -Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Low-Alloy Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 or I would put in a sheet of Baltic birch plywood which is really tough hardwood plywood with the plies about 1/16" thick. You know, I thought about Baltic Birch plywood but didn't know how it would do over the long haul underneath a Nazel 4B. Also, UHMW plastic is slick so I thought the rubber belting would be better. However, you make a good point about the belting being to soft. Maybe the Baltic Birch and UHMW plastic would be the way to go? I have a small chunck of UHMW plastic an I am really impressed with how tough this stuff is. It is used as rock hoper lining and tugboat rub rail bumpers, so you know it can take a beating, and it seems to me to be pretty "dead" feeling. Could be wrong, but that's my theory. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 I had heard the Fabreeka stuff was spendy but Im not really sure what that means... I figure its about $700 for milled white oak timbers so if I could buy the mat for $1000 I dont think that would be unreasonable... I think I'll look into the Baltic birch and UHMW... My issue is at the moment.... I am placing rebar today and have a date with the concrete truck at 10AM tomorrow... So I have to decide on anvil height... If there is 10" of timber or 1" of Fabreeka or UHMW it makes a pretty big difference where the bottom of the anvil trough is... I got about an hour to figure it out.... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Seems you should plan on 10" of wood. If you are able to source something else it is easy to fill the hole with something (pourstone) later to the new level. The oak seems a proven way. I would look at pallets, some bigger ones are made of oak 4x4s and 1" planks on top. Free. Is it to wet for oak trees up there? Here we just go to one of the guys with a sawmill and give him some dry logs and instant custom beams.... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Have you tried any suppliers other than Fabreeka? Perhaps one of these suppliers can help you out if Fabreeka is not responding. These are all U.S. based suppliers. http://www.irproducts.com/products/loadbearpads.html http://www.grtco.com/esr/esr-neopnbear.htm http://www.kellettent.com/vib_isol.html http://www.vibrodynamics.com/ http://www.sorbothane.com/contact-sorbothane.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Well. I got the quote for a 50" x 26" anvil mat from Fabreeka. $3200 plus shipping. And that's just enough for the anvil, not the whole hammer frame. Mmm. UHMW is looking better I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Well. I got the quote for a 50" x 26" anvil mat from Fabreeka. $3200 plus shipping. And that's just enough for the anvil, not the whole hammer frame. Mmm. UHMW is looking better I guess UHMW is not that cheap either but much less than the Fabreeka. UHMW is VERY abrasion resistant but it does tend to extrude a little when squeezed. I would be more inclined to use the HARDWOOD plywood. When I installed my anvil I was not aware that it had been machined in place at some point to compensate for timbers settling. So I had to shim the front of the anvil about 1/2". I tapered 2 pieces of Baltic birch about 18" wide (Big disk sanders are great) from the 1/2 down to almost a feather edge. In 2 years it has not settled at all. I wish I had used a second full thickness piece instead of the rubber mat. If you go with the plywood make sure You go with the Baltic birch. Many "Hardwood plywoods" are hardwood on the face but the interior veneers are only poplar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 Well it was a hard days work (just a bit over 16 hours) but I got the bolt cage built and in the hole.. I hope the concrete truck makes it out tomorrow ( I was suppose to call in and pay for the mud in advance and the finisher called and left me a message telling me to do so... that I got 3 hours after they had closed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Lookin good Larry, your gonna pull him out of that hole, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 If you pull him out who`s gonna check the alignment? After everything`s done and the hammer`s in place you can make him "The head of the forging department". :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 Thats my son Andrew... I gotta keep him around, he is the only one who I have to yell at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimenickel Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 i've bought the fabreeka pad for my 50lbs hammer.. on John's recommendation.. as i had to stop the vibration ( my neighbours house is 20feet from my shop ) it worked very nicely . ... cost bout 400 bucks for my small hammer ... had several talks with the engineers at fab ... they really know their stuff there is also Tico that makes pads also there are other systems than just a pad... .. spring box is suppose to be good good luck on the pour Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 That looks good. Are the allthreads removeable? Make sure to vibrate it especially under the steel pan, I guess that is for the anvil? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuge Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Not sure a lot of guys would have made the same call, what with the arsenal of squishers you have up and running but one thing is for sure, you get stuff DONE. Nice work Larry, looks tip top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Yeah, Blindly going forward, still cant find reverse.... I really feel pretty good... 40,000 lbs of mud in the hole today... the concrete guys did a fantastic job.. its dead flat and level.. 4500 PSI mix with long reinforcing fiber... A break down for you.. (Dillon ;`) Concrete cutting... Cash deal discount $220 Excavation $670 All thread / nuts $430 Concrete pump & crew.. Cash deal discount $400 Finishers $600 11 yards of concrete and delivery $1200 So thats $3520.... and of course I put half a ton of steel in the ground with that and probably got 30 man hours.. so really another couple grand that Im not counting.. None of those numbers by themselves seem bad at all... its just when you add them all up that it hurts... So really if I would have done it myself I could have saved maybe $300 on the excavation but he hauled off 11 yards of dirt, not sure what I would have done with that.. And I could have saved $600 I paid the finishers... and ended up with something far less than the perfect job that I got.. Everything else was what it was... I feel pretty good about it... from committing to this route last week to having a finished foundation a few days later I think it went pretty smooth I got to share a story.. I use to be a "do it yourself" kind of guy.. I still am if I feel it makes sense for me to do. So I had bought this house and it had a row of a dozen big poplar trees that really needed to come down... I got three or four estimates that ranged from $6000-$8000 and I thought that was just nuts... no way was I going to pay that... So I rented a 300 series excavator, had a friend who said he would haul the wood for fuel and disposal fees I started tearing stuff up.. I spent a week working really hard with help from several friends.. and when it was all over I had spent just over $10,000 for the privilege.. and of course it really cost me more than that because I should have been making money rather than tearing down trees... The lesson was pretty clear to me.. Sometimes the best thing to do is pay someone who does it for a living and has the same passion for it as I do for what I do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 That looks good. Are the allthreads removeable? Make sure to vibrate it especially under the steel pan, I guess that is for the anvil? Rob That was the plan... But the plan changed... there at 12 6' chunks of 1 1/4 in there... about 4 feet between the bottom nuts and where the top nut will be on the hammer.. this supposedly allows for stretch and give so you dont break a bolt... I drilled four 1/2" holes running down the center line of the anvil trough so I could make sure the mud was up against the bottom... I think that was a good move also because it let out the surface water under the pan as well... We about burned up a big vibrator (the wand was hot enough you couldnt hold it in bare hands) and I vibrated the anvil pan with my monster size needle scaler.. I feel pretty good about it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 John... I plan on about a inch and a half under the anvil and hammer frame... (I set the anvil pan up so with an inch and a half under both I'll have a 36" anvil height, I could add another inch or two without being overly high) I have a 4' X 10' sheet of 1/2" UHMW... Maybe going with the alternating material to isolate vibration theory I'll go with an inch of Baltic Birch and a half inch of UHMW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 That sound like it went pretty smooth. Good call on the holes in the pan. Now you just have to wait a month til you can use it, kind of like watching grass grow. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fciron Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Looks good. Glad to see you had a canine safety spotter for your boy in the hole. A month! Waiting a week for the pad for may lathe nearly killed me. Larry, I agree about paying people. I poured a little pad for my lathe (shop has a dirt floor.) and by the time I got around to it, and did it I'd spent a month with a hole in the floor and I aggravated an old injury, so it cost even more time. All that time is money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 You defiantly did it right Larry, costly but right. The first time I set the Niles I defiantly skimped on the crete but I knew it was temporary, only used 4 or 5 yards also did all the work myself, didn't pay for the excavator or timbers and the iron came from my scrap pile. You have set the bar for hammer installation, hope mine goes as well but cheaper :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 A month! Waiting a week for the pad for may lathe nearly killed me. Concrete has a 28 day cure, With all the anchors in this it would be foolish to torque them and run the hammer and risk breaking them loose from the 'crete while it is still green. There is a lot to do to yet setting and wiring the machine, about a week is how long I would wait to set the weight of the machine on the footing (but not hammer with it). Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Was there any admixtures added to the concrete? Things like superplasticizers, corrosion inhibitors etc. all affect the cure time. A high early concrete or an added accelerant would probably have met your strength requrements wihin a week. I don't suppose there were any test cylinders poured at the same time? For commercial and industrial concrete pours, it is a fairly standard practice to check the slump and the air content and pour 3 (or more) test cylinders for every 50 cubic meters or per pour, whichever is less. On some industrial jobs, this testing is required for every truckload of concrete. A test cylinder is then broken to check the compressive strength at 7 days, 14 days, and 28 days. If the concrete is poured in freezing conditions, an additional cylinder is cured under the same conditions and broke to ensure the mass pour is cured correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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