Some thoughts on blacksmithing

[KjZitur]

I was thinking that with all the interest there is in getting started in blacksmithing some random thoughts for the beginning blacksmith would be in order.
-Make anvil height and forge height the same. It

[habu68]

Read, read ,read

http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/free-blacksmithing-books-web-2032/

[the_sandy_creek_forge]

ken,
excellent advice (and a good idea on putting it all in one place) i only have one discrepancy and that deals with the advice "When placing an iron in the coal fire lay your piece on top of the coke and then work it down into the fire, don’t thrust it straight in." This works on some fire styles, but i often strive for the "cave" type fire with a good coked up roof and a small opening facing me. If i worked the iron down in the fire my roof would collapse But for a "trench" type fire (which i sometimes use when texturing a piece with texturing spring swages) the advice applies perfectly. Just to point that out, that's all.
-Aaron @ the SCF
Merry Christmas and a happy and safe (even if it is a bit crazy) New Year to all!

[Nick]

Hi Kj,

Good list. I never thought about my fire tools having different handles, they just did when I got them (both out of an old forge), and the ends are certainly covered in coal from time to time.

I do the "tap" hit when chiseling or punching. It's not so much of a tap as a quick, underpower strike to set the tool. I find this works for me to get consistent results. But as with many things, it won't work for everyone.

[mtforge]

Very good list. I could have used this a few years ago when I started out and learned it by trial and error. When I'm at shows demonstrating I don't even look for my hammer I just reach as I'm stepping to the anvil. OCD pays off. I tell people it's like chess you need to know your next step or two (or more) ahead of time.
Mark Thomas
MT Forge

[KjZitur]

sandy creek, you are absolutly correct with placing your iron in a cave type fire. I was refering to the many smiths I've seen using the "trench" type fire that just stick there iron either straight in or stick it down towards the bottom of the firepot...........ken

[Sam Salvati]

ken,
excellent advice (and a good idea on putting it all in one place) i only have one discrepancy and that deals with the advice "When placing an iron in the coal fire lay your piece on top of the coke and then work it down into the fire, don

[Rich Hale]

Ken I have taught alot of students the basics of smithing, I could have used your post at a text...thanks for sharing

[ThomasPowers]

I talk about the layers in a coal forge starting from the tuyere: Oxidizing, neutral, reducing and then as you get outside air smaller neutral and oxidixing layers.

You generally want your piece horizontal in the neutral or reducing layer rather than slanted down into the "danger zone"

[Ed Thomas]

I don't think this is much good for a beginner, actually, and I mildly disagree with most of your points.

1) The anvil height should be whatever it should be for you. The forge should be whatever height it turns out to be that is reasonable. Use an adjustable stand to hold things in the forge that are too long. Since the height of a piece is often not exactly horizontal, there isn't much point in using the anvil as a support. Set the anvil where it is convenient and at a comfortable height (I like mine about flat palm height).
2) What fire tools? I use a rake and a shovel. I can usually tell the difference between the two. Plus I usually hang them each in their own spot, which is far more important than what shape they have.
3) Okay, if you remember, put the hammer oriented to true north. Same way each time.
4) Standing with feet shoulder width apart at the anvil is awkward. Most smiths find the most comfortable stance for themselves, but often that is the outer foot forward as standing along the anvil. Your point of relaxed stance is good.
5) Okay to throw your hammer at the anvil.
6) Rhythm is overrated. Pay attention to the mechanics of hammering and let musicians tend to the rhythm.
7) Strongly disagree here... If you are determined to strike the first blow with authority every time, then you will chronically screw up your work. It is often very important to set your first blow and check its accuracy. That way you can make the minor adjustments to put it exactly where you wanted if you are off. If the tool bounces out of the hole or cut, then chances are your iron is not hot enough, you hit it wrong, or you are holding the tool poorly anyway. I have yet to see George Dixon look amateurish taking his gentle careful placement hits.
8) As said by others, pushing the metal in from the top will often break up a perfectly good fire. Sometimes it is the right way, but just as often I slide a piece into it. The shape of what you are forging determines what you have to do. Sometimes, on big things, you place the piece in the fire and push the fire around it. There are no hard and fast rules that I've seen yet. Learn fire management.
9) I agree here... think while you are heating and know what you are going to do as you bring it out.
10) Wirebrush in and out??? That's sounds a bit obsessive. Maybe good for dental care, but I don't worry too much about wire-brushing forged work until I'm nearly done, unless I'm working specifically on some piece that I want to avoid any scale imprinting. Even then, I'm not an in/out/brush/brush sort of guy. I brush as necessary as I go along.
11) Reducing the number of heats is overrated also. It is far more important to work at the right heat, and put it back in the fire to get it hot again than it is to worry about how many times that takes. As long as you don't burn the piece, the number of heats has no bearing on the final appearance. Almost always, the mangled, tortured look people associate with too many heats is caused by poor hammer control and improper heating.
12) Frustration is good. If you aren't frustrated occasionally, then you might be stagnating.
13) Zen is overrated. Everything is focus and CORRECT practice. If your hands are wandering around without direct control from your brain, then you should probably take a break.

Some of this is said tongue in cheek, but I am quite serious in my opinion that this list is of little value to a beginner. They strike me as a few random thoughts that are taken out of context. IN context, that is... in a teaching setting, each one of these points MIGHT be made as part of a bigger point. But standing alone like this, I'm not too crazy about them.

[tbrforge]

Ed Thomas... well spoken.

[KjZitur]

I think that these points are very important for the beginner. They were taught to me when I was a beginner and they were taught to all the smiths that taught me when they were beginners. These smiths were hard working men and they knew how to keep 15 coal fires going all day for 8 to10 hours a day 6 days a week. They all might not have been able to do the fine work of George Dixon but they could make everything from rivets and bolts to tongs and tools of all sorts to every component that fit on a boxcar, caboose, or snowdozer( and they outfitted all the buildings with Suffolk style latches and hinges of all sorts!) . They were gracious enough to share there thoughts and experiences and talents with me and I felt the need to pass some of it along.……………….ken

[Ted T]

Point and Counter Point.
Thank you all for the instructional POINTS, and COUNTER POINTS. After over 50 years of blacksmithing, I am still looking for information that will help my game. In fact I believe a lot of newer and younger blacksmiths become proficient in just a short time due to all of the opportunities, equipment, and information now available.
Because of blacksmiths like your selves, I receive new ideas regularly on how to approach, and improve my skills.
My biggest fear is that I don't want to out smart my self by thinking I know more that I really do. I don't want to miss out on anything because of my ego.
I believe all information provided has value to me. A lot of it has to do with preference and work style habits you want to become your standards.
Thank You!
Be safe, be safe!
Ted

[Sam Salvati]

I think that these points are very important for the beginner. They were taught to me when I was a beginner and they were taught to all the smiths that taught me when they were beginners. These smiths were hard working men and they knew how to keep 15 coal fires going all day for 8 to10 hours a day 6 days a week. They all might not have been able to do the fine work of George Dixon but they could make everything from rivets and bolts to tongs and tools of all sorts to every component that fit on a boxcar, caboose, or snowdozer( and they outfitted all the buildings with Suffolk style latches and hinges of all sorts!) . They were gracious enough to share there thoughts and experiences and talents with me and I felt the need to pass some of it along.

[yesteryearforge]

Ted
With an attitude like that you may just be the smartest man alive

[Shane Stegmeier]

I have heard the biblical virtue of "meekness" defined as having a "teachable spirit" We could all do with a dose of meekness, and avoid the pride that prevents us from learning. Ted has wisely recognised that we can learn from anyone if you approach the situation with the right spirit. People who think they know it all can't learn anything. When I was young I had a similiar problem, I wanted to protect my selfesteem and didn't take advantage of opportunities to learn from talented smiths in my area, I am endeavoring to make up for a misspent youth.

Ken outlines a particular 'tradition' of working from that railroad shop. The methods described work, but aren't neccessarily what works best for every style of working. Especially for someone who was not trained in that tradition.

[Ten Hammers]

Go Finn..:)

[irnsrgn]

When you think you know it all, you are sliding off the peak of your carreer and when you think you know it all you won't learn any more. I think Oakwoodforges mentor summed it up when called a Master, I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something like this, "If your glass is full there is not room for more.

Take an electrician when he gets to the point where he knows it all, he gets careless and the Electricity bites him, if he is lucky he will live thru it.

I have been smithing for a while and I learn something everyday. Sometimes I resist change, but then I think outside the box to much.