Bolting Anvil Down

[knots]

I have been pondering how I might anchor one of my anvils, a likely Mouse Hole carriage makers anvil ( no step ) to it's new base. I want to avoid chains. Since I move my anvils around the shop using overhead track, the anvil needs to be securely anchored so that the base moves with the anvil. One solution that I have in mind is welding on a couple of tabs with bolt holes to the anvil so that the anvil cam be bolted down Fisher style. Anybody ever done this ?

[pkrankow]

What's wrong with chain? You can wrap it over the feet and tighten it on itself with a couple long bolts and take it apart easily if needed.

You can also strap over the feet with 1/4 x 1 and bolt through that to brackets fastened to the stump.

I am sure there are a lot of good ideas that do not involve welding to the anvil. An anvil of that age is wrought and can be problematic to weld, according to what I have read.

Phil

[Timothy Miller]

Your a blacksmith right? You can forge special brackets the fit over the feet with hole in them to lag bolting down to the base. You can make large staples that go over the feet or large spikes with a right angle bend in them to go over the feet. Don't weld to it, its bad form and the its the lazy way out.

[arftist]

I use 1/2x 1 1/2" flat bar and 1/2" lags. Lags go into end grain but at an angle. Make the straps short so the bolts can always be tightened.

[knots]

Yeah, I can do any of hose things. But we modify tools to fit our needs all of the time. Why not this ? Are there valid reasons against this approach or are we just talking philosophy here ?

[Timothy Miller]

It makes you a better smith by using forging to solve your problems especially if they are forge problems. if you are always reaching for a welding machine you will only get so far with forging it will limit your growth as a smith. Also electric welding of wrought iron can be an iffy proposition especially if it is under a lot of strain. I learned this the hard way fixing old fire escapes in Manhattan.

[njanvilman]

Make a mechanical hold-down of some sort. Someday you may want to sell that anvil, and any weld on it will compromize its value. You have got to think long term.

[Sweany]

here is my version.

http://www.farwestforge.com/Forum/bsgview.php?photo=3441&cat=&by=Sweany

[knots]

here is my version.

http://www.farwestforge.com/Forum/bsgview.php?photo=3441&cat=&by=Sweany

Sweany, that is an interesting looking anvil . Do you have any of it's history. Kinda reminds me of a ships anvil.

Your stand looks sturdy but I had a couple of timbers that I glued and bolted together. Mine is a fairly big anvil and I would normally just drive a few pins around it to beep it from moving o the stump. The only reason that I need to fasten it to the base is to facilitate moving it around the shop.

[Sweany]

Yep, I built it.

I used a couple pieces of 5" plate, forged tractor axel for the horn. Hard surfaced the face.
The block on the side is the hardy hole,complete with cam lock.

weighs about 350 lbs

[the hangman]

here is my version.

http://www.farwestforge.com/Forum/bsgview.php?photo=3441&cat=&by=Sweany

What does "neoprene of plywood" mean ?

[Sweany]

Should'a been neoprene or plywood, old typo's coming back to haunt me :lol:

[basher]

weld it, bolt it, chain it. it really makes no difference as long as it is firm.....
and does its job.
I have never chained an anvil but have welded a couple to their bases and nailed and screwed a few . the welding holds best in my experience . but a forged to shape and bolted bracket would work well too .
use dissimilar rods or pure nickel for best results and peine to stress relieve.
anvils are tools and need to be used, a weld is not a permanent alteration if you have an angle grinder to reverse it .

[Timothy Miller]

weld it, bolt it, chain it. it really makes no difference as long as it is firm.....
and does its job.
I have never chained an anvil but have welded a couple to their bases and nailed and screwed a few . the welding holds best in my experience . but a forged to shape and bolted bracket would work well too .
use dissimilar rods or pure nickel for best results and peine to stress relieve.
anvils are tools and need to be used, a weld is not a permanent alteration if you have an angle grinder to reverse it .

Your going to weld to a rare and collectible 150 year old wrought iron steel faced anvil the likes of witch will never be made again because its easy? Its sort of like taking some weapons from the middle ages and drilling holes in them to mount them to the wall because its faster than making proper mounts for them.

[beslagsmed]

Here's a pic of one anvil stand I made and how I secured it. Under the anvil I welded a metal strip across the stand, bored a hole for the bolt to pass through. Also between the anvil and the stand I have rubber mat to deaden the ring.

[basher]

Your going to weld to a rare and collectible 150 year old wrought iron steel faced anvil the likes of witch will never be made again because its easy? Its sort of like taking some weapons from the middle ages and drilling holes in them to mount them to the wall because its faster than making proper mounts for them.

anvils are tools .I see no problem in welding tabs onto one to make it do its job better .you are after all going to be smacking it with a big hammer !
and as you mention it drilling 1/4 holes into the feet and then coach bolting through those would work well too .
or like I said earlier forged brackets would work fine.

[arftist]

anvils are tools .I see no problem in welding tabs onto one to make it do its job better .you are after all going to be smacking it with a big hammer !
and as you mention it drilling 1/4 holes into the feet and then coach bolting through those would work well too .
or like I said earlier forged brackets would work fine.

Our veiw is different here in the states. Anvils are not common and cheap here like they are in England. Welding an anvil is a sure way to reduce it's value to just above scrap. Bad way to treat a large investment, and completely un-needed. As you said yourself, forged brackets work fine.

[arftist]

a weld is not a permanent alteration if you have an angle grinder to reverse it .

Not true. Anyone could determine a weld had been made.

[pkrankow]

Other people's ideas (including my own)



Phil

[Tim McCoy]

IMHO anvils, like women need, a certain amount of finesse when being dealt with. How I treat mine is my business (short of violence) and if it works for me whose to say, "that's wrong"? Bolt it, drill it, weld it and most of us will consider that violence. It's yours, but keep in mind that, unlike women, you can still sell your anvil someday and unless you want to have a junker - don't lay a welding rod to it or drill holes in it. Treat her with consideration and act like you care about her and someday, if you haven't marked her up, she'll still be valuable and you will be happier.

Tim

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

What does you base look like now? Picture? You could do an eye bolt on the side with the chain attached with a turnbuckle. That would keep the base attached when airlifting it around the shop. If all it has to do is hold the base it doesn't have to be that outrageously overbuilt.

[Jeff Seelye]

Dan, by now I think you get the idea that there are quite a few people on this site with a lot of different opinions. Some are from the same camp while others have different opinions. You are free to pick any one of them. You appear to be a worker of metal,and yes philosophy does play it's games with some of us. Some of us have great anvils, with historic value and some have RR iron or forks from fork trucks or large blocks of steel. Do what you wish but as to your original question... No, I have never welded on an anvil.

[maddog]

I have been pondering how I might anchor one of my anvils, a likely Mouse Hole carriage makers anvil ( no step ) to it's new base. I want to avoid chains. Since I move my anvils around the shop using overhead track, the anvil needs to be securely anchored so that the base moves with the anvil. One solution that I have in mind is welding on a couple of tabs with bolt holes to the anvil so that the anvil cam be bolted down Fisher style. Anybody ever done this ?

Ive been using a scheme like that on my anvil stand. I used 3/8 x 1.5" strap. It's very simple and works very well and no welds were needed. I have an unmarked 355# HB and I have no problem taking the welder to it and modifying it to suit. In general, my approach is it's a tool, it's MY tool and I can mod it to suit me like any other tool. That said, if I owned a Mouse Hole I would feel differently.

[Timothy Miller]

Attached are three photos of how I have made hold downs for my anvils in our shop. Honestly the spikes work pretty good and took not very much work to do, you can lift the anvil off the base if you like that is for a 187 peter wright. The last photo of a my 325 lb Hay Budden was a lot of work but is rock solid it was one of the trickier forgings I had done up to that point. My shop is next to a tree service so I can get nice size logs any time I like.

[knots]

Thank you all for your spirited responses. I consider all to be valid . By now you may have realized that the reason that I opened this question is that I am somewhat ambivalent about welding to this specific anvil.

I like BIGGUNDOCTOR's idea of strapping the anvil down when moving it. Only I would use a ratchet strap as a hold down. Southshoresmith "s three thumbnail's pretty much cover the usual hold down methods plus the rather cool third example with the curved clip. I currently use the spikes just to keep the anvil from shifting. For larger anvils I find that is all that is needed except for the moving issue.

However there is a way to weld a clip to an anvil without causing overt damage. That is - weld the clip to the bottom of the anvil with just enough projecting from the anvil base for the lag screw hole. This would require that the stump be rabbited to receive the clip so that the anvil would rest firmly on the stump.

My view is that most times less is more. So I will give the strap a try, it should work. I am also giving the curved clip a close look even though I have a prejudice against clips . Now chains are another matter. Chains remind me of Marley's Ghost. No chained anvils here !