some folks just have no idea

[FieryFurnace]

Well, I am working on a custom job for a lady who lives in Louisville. She is remodeling a historic log home in NC and I'm doing the iron work! Pot rack and general bathroom hardware....still trying to talk them into the fireplace tool set, (naturally followed by a fireplace screen.)

Anyway, she's wondering about some kitchen cabinet pulls! I'm going to make/send some sample pieces to let her choose what she likes.

This evening I checked my email and she had sent me a link to a cabinet pull that is sold at Lowes! "Antique bronze" pull for $6.27! The thing would require me to do two square mortise and tenon joints, and drill and thread through the back! Good grief, if I got $20 a pull I'd be shooting myself in the foot! It's sad really because I looked at that thing and thought, that's what put us out of business in the first place!

I don't know...suppose I'm a bit grumpy about it!

The client has been really good and had no problem paying 50% down and all that good stuff! Folks just don't know I reckon!

I'll try to get some pictures of some of the stuff I'm making!

[fciron]

There are to approaches to that: #1 "If it's a fifth the price at Lowe's then you should buy it from Lowe's." I refuse to make curtain rings anymore, it's not good for me or the customer. I'll make rods and brackets because people always want something that's 2 inches longer than what's in stock and they're willing to pay for it, but it's better for both of us if they just buy the rings from the store. I can't keep the darn things in stock and I hate making them.

#2 Send her a picture or a sample of something similar but better. Upset the ends, add a nice curve or cool texture so that the client (and friends) can see right away that this is a custom piece made just for that client and her cabinets.

The only way to compete with mass production on price is to mass produce things. So don't compete on price. B)

[chyancarrek]

Hey Dave,

There's things that you just can't ( won't , shouldn't ) compete with - 6 dollar pulls at Bigbox are one of them - if the pulls had been part of an overall iron-makeover where you had really marketed the fact that they were being hand made as part of the original sales bid, you could run your price up to where you can make a profit. Just let your client know that there's no way you can make them for anywhere near that amount and stick with the bigger ticket items that you can keep a good margin on.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

One of my favorite axioms for business: Don't try do what everyone else is doing, do what no one else is doing.

[ironstein]

Good advice Grant.

[bigfootnampa]

I have had very similar experiences. I usually drop those people from my potential client lists. IF you really want the work and think there is any chance of getting it, do your own design at your price and show it. You'll sell it eventually, though maybe to another customer. People who want custom work and ALSO to do ALL the designing cannot buy it from me... hopefully not from you either. Forged work must be process designed to be within the budget reach of almost all clients.

[FieryFurnace]

Good advice all!

I wasn't planning on trying to compete with the piece she sent pics of. I don't even have the tools to do mortise and tenon right now....though I do know how to do it and how to make the tools to do it.

Anyway, I'm pretty much going to do my own thing,charge my own price, send her the sample, and see if she wants me or china in her kitchen! :)

[HWHII]

I run into this problem alot. For me it comes in the way of a security doors, which are very popular here in the west. I approach it by pointing it out to them anyone can have something you by at a big box store, but you are buying a piece of hand forged "functional art" that no one else has. Also show them that even if you make 10 pulls none of them are the same they are all a little different. The ones from the big box store are all a like. It will add a unique'ness to there home.

[maddog]

It's possible she was just looking for an example of what she has in mind rather than expecting you to produce Lowe's version at Lowe's price. I don't know how the conversation went, but it's easy to make the mistake of reacting to words that were never said and never intended.

[dablacksmith]

ime actually working on a dezign for pulls . i figure they will be in the 20$ a piece range but no mortice &tennon joints ! the thing about pulls you need to emphasise is that your pulls are forged not cast and not plated ! they will never wear out and would be real hard to break ! lowes is for everyone else who wants pulls that are the same as millions of other peoples. this is a recurring thing i run into tho ... like the hardware store plant hangars that keep breaking or people want more hooks on um ... i will do the work but i charge for it includeing makeing the existing hook look like mine (i never leave exposed ends without a scroll ) . they are usually happy to pay even tho it ends up costing more than they paid for the hangar initially! good luck!

[bigfootnampa]

Hey I have a story RE fixes or repairs for you... A guy wants to know if I can repair his walking stick (on the phone) so I say "well I'd have to look at it". He drives up to my shop in a taxi. He's short... I'm six foot and he hits me about at the shoulder. He has a few pounds on me though, so round it's hard to estimate but I figure at least 380 lbs. He has an eastern cedar walking stick that has snapped right in half. I look it over and estimate repairs at about $100. I mention though that the wood is a poor choice for the use he has in mind. He says "why that's more than I paid for the stick to start with". "Yeah" I said, "I could make you a new one cheaper... better too". So we settled that I would make him one of hickory and ship it to him as he was traveling on business and I couldn't have it before he left. I told him he could pass the new one down to his heirs as it would easily outlast he and I both! I think the new stick was about $60 with shipping. Sometimes you have to do some educational work, as well as your craftsmanship.

[ThomasPowers]

I've seen multiple examples of hand forged hardware wearing out; why some of it wasn't more than 300 years old too! (I've also seen examples of stuff closer to 1000 years old that was still in good shape too!)

[Francis Trez Cole]

Well I have to do it all the time it is education. One thing I have done in the past is take the handle from the big box store and put it in the vice and give it a wack with a hammer most are made from potmetal and snap right off. Once the client sees that its junk they want the real thing. I had a fellow balk at the price of some plates made out of 1/4" plate. Told him that I could make them out of 10 gague and it would work as well over designed. He compared the price to simpson ties. I told him he would be happer with the simpson tie.

[pkrankow]

Lots of good stuff here. Remember you have a client already, and forcing the issue won't help you.

Make a couple samples, send her pictures. Shoot for a process that is less than 20 minutes per piece so you can stay at a decent price. When you build the lot your time should be less as you will take things in steps. (5 pieces per hour gets you $100/hour at $20/piece)

If she doesn't buy, the samples will still be worth the time for other customers.

If she wants the price then don't sweat it, let her get what she gets and don't loose the rest of the deal over it.

Phil

[Avadon]

Don't ever feel you have to compete with the big box stores! That is a total dead end down a one way street. Why would you? You need to convey it in 1000 ways to sunday that you ARE CUSTOM! If they want the look that everyone else has then by all means go to lowes or depot. You need to let them know that having original blacksmith work is obviously more expensive but clearly comes with a prestige that is worth far beyond anything they can buy from lowes. This kind of language you need all over your website and brochures. Never make a customer feel that going to the big box is the right idea. Let them know that what your doing is the genuine article and anything less will not be authentic, and also may not actually hold up, match the theme, look good, be warrantied, etc. (your sales pitch)

Make the customer know that you are not APPLES TO APPLES with Lowes!! You are Ferarri to Apples and there is an ENORMOUS difference between the two. The more your customer knows this the more they will realize that wherever they can they should buy from you. This is the tactic i've used for the last 8 years of business and it's always worked. I simply tell the customers straight out of the gate that "I don't compete with big manufacturers... why would I do such poor work?" and I show them why my stuff is better, backed by replacement, installed properly, etc.


Essentially her argument is "Why would I buy a Ducati Motorcycle when a Bicycle will still get me from place to place."

You're argument is "The Ducati motorcycle is the most choice driving experience available and the best buy for the discerning customer"

Don't defend or attack her argument. Simply present your own smarter and stronger argument. If you can't convince the customer that way then there was little hope to begin with. Those samples are a good idea but I wouldn't try to compete in price to lowes. Make a few at different price ranges from cheaper to much more expensive. You often don't really know how deep a customers wallet is until they see something they just LOVE and have to have from you.
;)

[jw223]

Hey guys- I had a similar story a few years ago. A customer wanted a quote on some window guards for the basement and first floor of an apartment building. (somewhat questionable neighborhood) After deciding on a style, the customer gave me the go ahead. there were 17 total. I ordered the steel, but before it even arrived, he called and cancelled the order. He felt that me putting the bars at 8" centers to allow for scrolls, I was wasting material. He found a cheaper version at the depot. He installed them himself. A few weeks later, he called and said that someone broke in and stole a bunch of things from the building. when I asked how they got in, they had broke the glass, and slipped between the bars. then they just walked out the front door. The bars were 12" centers, with no scrolls, and only one vertical twist in the center. I guess the moral would be "sometimes it doesn't pay to save money". Don't compete, offer your customer something better and show them why they need it!

[Rob Browne]

Great post JW. Must have been a bit of poetic justice for you :)

[FieryFurnace]

Some of these tactics are just a hoot! In a good sense!

I haven't got to the door pulls yet! Maybe tomorrow!

I talked with her about pricing on a fireplace set.....she replied that it was more than she wanted to spend and gave me a slightly open ended probably not!

So I basically laid out a less expensive design and hit her with some of the differences between mass produced sets and mine.
She's back on board now with a "maybe I'll get one for my husband for christmass!"

Thanks for the info guys! It's really helping out!


The 4 towel hooks!
Dave