rr spike gun

[pip]

I respect that you don't want to see me injured. I live in the Mississippi delta and, due to floods and the way sediment packs on to each other makes the availability of good flint go down. Based on your profile it appears that you live in Virginia. It's very different in a delta, than in a more mountainous area. Here there is not a lot of flint, at least not in pieces big enough to make a sparker out of. I guess that it may be the easiest part if you don't live in a delta like me. If you've ever searched for a spool of flint in a swamp, you would know it's not easy. I think I might just make it a matchlock instead.

[MattBower]

We're pretty short on that kind of stuff up here, too. What I was suggesting is that you can buy good flints from Dixie Gunworks for a few dollars. (Probably other places, too; I haven't looked in a long time.) http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=22_99_315&osCsid=c5888affb1c95689c2ee00baa623364c

Even in the old days, gun flints were a commercial item. There wouldn't be anything inauthentic about buying a few.

[Bentiron1946]

I have made charcoal burners out of many different things, it ain't rocket science or brain surgery, but if done wrong you may need an emergency surgeon. If you exercise due diligence in the manufacture of you charcoal burner you can successfully make one. The originals weren't made from the finest of steels compared to what is available today in the average salvage yard. So follow this sage advice "you start out with an empty bag of experience and a full bag of luck. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck" and be very, very careful, do all the research you can and in the end you'll have something that can send a ball down range. I have made them from scratch and still have all of my eyes, fingers, hands and toes. The only thing that has suffered has been my hearing, wear hearing protection and eye protection.
BE SAFE in what ever you do!!! :angry:

[Glenn]

As Matt suggests the availability of good sparking flint would be one of the very first requirements for a flint lock. If in doubt buy good flint from a known source. If nothing else it will give you a standard for testing the sparking ability of other flints.

Building your own gun barrel (and gun) is an advanced level of blacksmithing. You MUST have all the knowledge, skill, and expertise to get it right the first time. You need to use the very best materials (steels) available to you to insure the safety of the operation of that weapon. I can promise you that present day gun manufacturers do not use rail road spikes for their gun barrels.

Blacksmiths can and do build guns, weapons, etc. Concerning those weapons, we tend to use caution when giving out information. If you start out "I wanna to make a sword" without knowing how to build a fire, we suggest ways you can build a fire, then how to build a knife. To say you want to make a gun, we ask about you forge welding ability and find out you do not understand the qualities of different metals or the use of different fluxes in forge welding. This is a major concern to us as it is basic information to blacksmithing and forge welding.

This is not to say you can not make a gun, but YOU and only YOU take the responsibility for the safety of that construction. We are not here to rain on your project, but several members feel you need much more information, skill, and expertise about the basics of blacksmithing and metalworking before you proceed to the next level. If you can not form a Damascus bullet, make good forge welds, etc, then any gun barrel you make would immediately be brought into question.

If you want to know about blacksmithing we can help get you started or help you to advance to the level of skill and expertise in blacksmithing. We require feedback that you are applying that information at the forge and not just being a virtual blacksmithing from an computer chair. Show us the forge welds, show us the billets, and ask questions that only can come from working at the forge. Once you have the blacksmithing basics you will need to post on a black powder forum, or a gun forum. Those folks are knowledgeable in THEIR field of skill and expertise.

[wedwards]

thanks for all your comments i use black powder. i have made guns from pipes before. I know how to test them safely. I do not use as muck powder as i could. would spring steel work better, and i promise that if i make it i would show you the pics.

where can i find him

i am going to make a pistol. i decided to make it as a display piece. i might strap it to a tree ind fire it 300 feet away down into a dried up pond. Probably not but it depends on how it comes out. it is going to be flint or match lock. flint if i can find some.

Poundit..

Listen to what all these people are telling you. Most if not all of them have "been there, done that" in the learning from painful experience department. When I saw your first post I was immediately reminded of the story about the guy who went to the shipyard looking for a yacht. He asked the rep how much a particular model would cost. The rep looked at him and said, "If you have to ask you can't afford it".

If you have to ask anyone how to make a firearm out of material not even remotely suitable for such use, YOU SHOULD NOT BE DOING THIS!

Furthermore if you should forge ahead (pun intended) with this folly, no matter what your original intention might have been, if you end up with a pipe bomb that is what you have. There are I think many different people who monitor this and other forums who would be very interested in people making pipe bombs.

Take care.

Bill

[pip]

thank you for all your comments. i can make very good forge welds. i have got them tested once. they are just as likely to brake as the rest of the steel. all i am wondering is if the steel is suitable for a gun. i know some of you are gun smiths. maybe i will ask this to some more gun smiths. do any of you know a good website for gunsmiths. I have mild steel RR spikes.Spring steel can flex more so there for less likely to blow up. I know my welds with spring steel are strong but i don't know exactly how strong. would a Chevy suburban leaf spring work better. i am going to make a mach lock rifle. a piece of twine covered in lard is cheap. also is more reliable then a spark. I am not this dumb but i knew a man, who bought i flint lock pistol he fired it. it did not go off so he lifted up his flit. while he was doing that his pan caught on fire and went into the barrel. the hole where the fire went in shot out a stream of fire that burned through his finger. again do any of you know a good gun smithing web site. if any of you are gun smiths can you recommend some good steel for a gun. with a couple bucks some Coffey, doughnuts, and i pizza i can get pretty much any mettle once i got titanium form my scarp yard.

[peacock]

No it is not a good steel for this project. If you really want a gun barrel from a railroad spike go buy a chunk of 4140, forge that into a rr spike then make your barrel from that. you can make a lot of 4140 rr spikes for the price of one trip to the emergency room. BE SAFE.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Can't imagine using junkyard steel to make a gun barrel. Lard soaked twine? Doesn't sound like something that will smolder properly. Curious how/where you had your forge welds tested.

[Rich Hale]

Once again this thread distresses me a lot. And also once again there are many of the folks on here stepping up to the plate and trying to offer good advice on a subject that may become dangerous if it goes past this point. The person that asked the question that started this is interested in a task that may become an incident with dire results. I am not sure that anyone from this point on will be able to convince him of this enough that he does the research and builds the skills and experience that are needed to complete his piece. I believe that if he reads wot has been offered in here he will see wot seems to me really obvious. He does not have the skills or knowledge to safely continue this. That is so far; He may be able to gain the tools he will need in the future. but for now the idea needs to be put on a high shelf and work continue on the basics. For us to continue in any manner that will encourage him to by pass basics and push ahead in this project would be unwise and may even lead to personal liability or even liability for this site if things go bad. I will offer no more advice in this thread other than this. Use this site to puruse your interest in smithing. Ask any questions concerning that and expect that always in this site someone will offer direction or advice to help you along. Leave the gun buildin exercise alone here. And also know this. I am a member that enjoys this site and the craft it represents. As such I have no authority or right to ask this of you. Learn and take pride in smithing. And try to have fun...safe fun!

[Woody]

Son, you appear to be a couple fries short of a Happy Meal. A whole bunch of very knowledgeable people have tried to very politely tell you that what you plan is VERY DANGEROUS, but you seem unable to grasp the concept. So, I will attempt to convey the message not so politely in the hope that you will finally understand that what you are contemplating can get you a new address with several different Zip Codes, a trip to the Emergency Room, or in worst case scenario, a meeting with your maker.

I have a set of Safety Rules posted in my shop the first 3 are:

1. Safety First and Always.

2. This shop is not Idiot Proof or Politically Correct. If you have a problem with that limit you visit to the time that it has taken you to read this far.

3. It is alright to be incredibly stupid as long as you are the only one that knows.

What you are attempting is a violation of Rules # 1 & 3. You are about to demonstrate that to the world.

Railroad Spikes are Mild Steel. HC, Higher Carbon; not High Carbon, Railroad Spikes are about 30 points carbon. That is 3/10th of 1% carbon. That is not enough Carbon to make suitable gun barrel stock. Most gun barrel stock is 4140 steel. That is a chrome molly alloy with 40 points of carbon. Once the barrel is made, it is heat treated to exacting specifications and proof tested.

You say that you don’t have suitable equipment to accomplish what you intend to do. If you can’t produce a Perfect, forge weld Every time what you have no business attempting to forge a gun barrel. You have stated that you have made “guns” out of pipe. The only difference between your “gun” and a bomb is you didn’t tamp the wadding tight enough.

Additionally, if your “gun” explodes, you may have a very difficult time explaining to the BAFT and Department of Homeland Security exactly what you were doing in the first place.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Yeah, the "pipe" comment was scary too.

[Marksnagel]

This is a dead horse that I shall no longer beat.

My conscience is clear. Warnings have gone unheeded. Advice cast aside.

Good luck.

Mark<><

[pip]

hi guys did you read that this is a display piece. next of we have to talk about carbon steel in guns. in older guns soft steel is what is used not brittle carbon steel. when black powder ignites it explodes with great presser. carbon steel will crack. soft steel such as wrought iron will bulge and hopefully not go with the powder.that is why it was used in the us military for so long. spring steel will bend not blow up that is why i asked about the leaf spring.now on to tools i have everything i need except a rifling tool. i would not like to buy one first of all this is a display piece. second of all they cost in between $550 and $5000 dollars where i looked. one of you asked where i got my welds tested. I have a friend in Tennessee who was an engineer. He tested building materials to see what they could stand up to. he helped select what to use for newer sky scrapers. he owned all his equipment. so when he retired he had it left over so now he plays with them in a pull barn. he is a nice guy, but he does not do much any more. he is old and does not feel well the doctors all say he is fine. and by the way twine coated with lard was first choice when making a mach lock rifle back in the 1500's. an inch of twine coated with lard can burn up to 25 minutes.

[thingmaker3]

I have mild steel RR spikes.

No, sir. You do not. No such thing exists.

Spring steel can flex more

No, sir, it does not.

i am going to make a mach lock rifle. a piece of twine covered in lard is cheap. also is more reliable then a spark.

Then why did flintlocks replace matchlocks?

Pleas abandon this dangerous folly. Grow up safely. Learn to gunsmith in due time and proper sequence, if you wish. But abandon this dangerous folly of youth.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

While you did say display piece, you also explained that you intended to fire it.

While some of what you say is partly true, it contains some misinterpretations. Regardless of how they fail, wrought iron will fail catastrophically at a much lower stress than a similar piece of heat-treated carbon or alloy steel. Like a factor of 5-10 times!

The match was required to smolder like a punk or incense. Usually it was a cord that was impregnated with a little potassium nitrate. A small amount is added to cigarettes for the same reason so they don't go out like cigars.

[Mainely,Bob]

hi guys did you read that this is a display piece. next of we have to talk about carbon steel in guns. in older guns soft steel is what is used not brittle carbon steel. when black powder ignites it explodes with great presser. carbon steel will crack. soft steel such as wrought iron will bulge and hopefully not go with the powder.that is why it was used in the us military for so long. spring steel will bend not blow up that is why i asked about the leaf spring.now on to tools i have everything i need except a rifling tool. i would not like to buy one first of all this is a display piece. second of all they cost in between $550 and $5000 dollars where i looked. one of you asked where i got my welds tested. I have a friend in Tennessee who was an engineer. He tested building materials to see what they could stand up to. he helped select what to use for newer sky scrapers. he owned all his equipment. so when he retired he had it left over so now he plays with them in a pull barn. he is a nice guy, but he does not do much any more. he is old and does not feel well the doctors all say he is fine. and by the way twine coated with lard was first choice when making a mach lock rifle back in the 1500's. an inch of twine coated with lard can burn up to 25 minutes.

When herding ducks it is universally agreed that it is best to get all your ducks in a row prior to showing them.
You sir,do not have your ducks in anything resembling a row.
I respectfully suggest you or a trusted friend consider the generous application of duck tape to avoid further fowl departure into the realms of winged chaos.

I bid you good by and good luck,you`re gonna need it.

[pip]

hi guys i said i might key word might but probably not strap it to a tree and fire it away 300 feet away.i i forgot to mention that i have old rail road ties to hide behind i use them to test rockets. it is also in a dried up old pond so the only way shrapnel can go is up. where am i? 300 feet away. the reason(but none of this will mater because it will be on a wall) why mach lock got replaced by flit lock is because if you have 6 inches of string that's about 3 hours of time you can spend out. also when you have something burning it gives away your sent. if wrought iron was so bad for guns why was it used so long in the military for just that. most of those guns are still around today and functioning. if leaf springs cant flex why have they been used in cars for so long and are still used to day. lest say you take to identical sords except one is made out of carbon steel the other a leaf spring. which will brake first when you bend them or hack on a tree or maybe toss them a couple time or run over them with a truck. you try it the answer might surprise some of you i know i have try it.

[ThomasPowers]

Spring steel, especially if not handled right, is more prone to fracturing during powder ignition NOT LESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Increased carbon is coupled with increased brittleness---which is why modern guns are usually made from alloys at the lower end of medium carbon.

It is this type of misconception that makes us wonder what's going on---not only what you may not know but also what you know that isn't so!

My suggestion is to partner with a friendly gunsmith and do it as a shared project.

[wedwards]

. . .

It is this type of misconception that makes us wonder what's going on---not only what you may not know but also what you know that isn't so!

My suggestion is to partner with a friendly gunsmith and do it as a shared project.

He or she will need to be not only friendly but infinitely patient. I know more than a few and not one of them would even let this guy in the door.

Who was it who said, "No man is so blind as he who will not see"? That quote may not be completely accurate but unless the OP is trolling (and I am beginning to suspect he is) it seems appropriate.

Good luck, Poundit.. If you are determined to do this you will need it.

Bill

[MattBower]

If you want to be taken seriously as someone with the skills to do what you propose -- forget about materials for a moment -- why not post some pictures that illustrate your stellar forging and forge welding skills. If you're as good as you claim, that shouldn't be a problem. And it would put a lot of folks' minds at ease. While you're at it, tell us the titles of some of the books you've read, and/or the videos you've watched, about the making of muzzle loading firearms. You might catch less flak if you could provide a little evidence that you may be competent to do what you intend to do.

[thingmaker3]

i i forgot to mention that i have old rail road ties to hide behind i use them to test rockets.

Now you're a rocket scientist too? Do you have a liscense for those class C areal fireworks of yours?

if leaf springs cant flex why have they been used in cars for so long and are still used to day.

Re read. Nobody except you said leaf springs don't flex. What I said is that spring steel won't flex any differently than mild steel. The modulus of elasticity varies by less than 2% for any composition or heat treatment of steel. Look it up.

lest say you take to identical sords except one is made out of carbon steel the other a leaf spring.

Educate us, if you please. What is the difference in composition between "carbon steel" and "leaf spring?" Are 5160 and 4140 devoid of carbon? Are they something other than steel?

[Glenn]

hi guys i said i might key word might but probably not strap it to a tree and fire it away 300 feet away.i i forgot to mention that i have old rail road ties to hide behind i use them to test rockets. it is also in a dried up old pond so the only way shrapnel can go is up. where am i? 300 feet away.

Hate to mention this but the energy lost in gaining altitude is recovered during the return back to earth and shrapnel is still shrapnel no matter from what direction it arrives.

Your comments show a lack of judgment and unwillingness to consider your safety and the safety of those around you.

[edge9001]

Hate to mention this but the energy lost in gaining altitude is recovered during the return back to earth and shrapnel is still shrapnel no matter from what direction it arrives.

Your comments show a lack of judgment and unwillingness to consider your safety and the safety of those around you.

I don;t mean to argue with a very valid point but the nerd in me is coming out...

if an object is moving straight up and then returns straight down the energy it will have is equal to the objects mass x its terminal velocity. thus little danger. HOWEVER if the object has an arc like trijectory (to mean it goes a little sideways)then there will be little or no loss of speed or energy. there have been many studies and even a mythbusters episode dedicated to this.

for example if a bullet is fired upwards and comes down on a similar path then all of the initial energy will be ovwercome by gravity and then the new energy will be a combination of its mass and terminal velicity, it will hurt someone but more than likely no longer be deadly. a bullet shot at say a 45 degree angle will remain deadly until it is stopped by something. in much the same way as schrapnel from the proposed firearm, the majority of the schrapnel that would make it out of a dry pond scenerio would be in a arcing trijetory and therfore VERY deadly. only the small ammount of material that went straight up would be less than lethal.

firearms manufacture can be very dangerous and possibly even deadly, this is why the BATF has a licensing process for gun makers

[MattBower]

As long as we're on the subject of legal requirements, I suppose it might not hurt to mention MISSISSIPPI CODE OF 1972 As Amended SEC. 97-37-14. Possession of handgun by minor; act of delinquency; exceptions.. I'm only guessing that it applies here.

[ThomasPowers]

Most wrought iron guns "are still around today and functioning." Total BS, I'd bet you a thousand dollars that not 1 in 10,000 wrought iron guns are "are still around today and functioning." And base my bet on say the Muskets of England's Armies.


If you think that 1 in 10,000 is "most"; well...

So leaf springs flex---so do diving boards---why don't you replace the leaf springs on your cars with ones made from diving boards they flex right?

This is getting into plain old trolling.

Good Bye and thanks for all the fish!