paint versus beeswax

[thecelticforge]

I have a new customer that owns a store that trades in mountain man stuff. He came by a few weeks ago and looked at my stuff and placed an order. He liked everything the way it was.

However, pick up and pay up day arrived and he told me he wanted most of the stuff painted instead of treated with wax and linseed oil and the other stuff just polished with a wire brush.

Everything he ordered is going to be subject to use and abuse and I have never had paint that could stand up to that. Is there anything new on the market that I don't know of? Should I try to talk him out of his insanity? Should I run screaming?

[phil shelton]

explain the different and let him decide the customer is aways rite :unsure:

[arftist]

Paint it. As to the running and screaming, only you can decide that.

[Wesley Chambers]

As I see it, It is his store selling YOUR work. I would prefer to provide my customers with the best I could offer them, even if they are second in the line of sale, because in the end if they come complaining to him, he can simply point the finger back at the maker...

Best of luck!

[Mainely,Bob]

There are many other alternatives beside paint and wax.
You may want to ask him what kind of conditions he sees these things being used under and then treat them to fit those needs,for additional cost of course.
An alternative if you don`t want to get into the coating end of things is to price them as bare iron and let him take care of treating them.

[Rich Hale]

Seems you are real familiar with the bbees wax,,,Have you tried paint and other choices?
He has to get his way for sure but diplomacy will be in yu allowing him to have your way. And that would be to get real familiar with several finishes and letting him choose your pick. And a third option that I like is watco dark walnut oil finish,,sold for wood but you may give it a try...

[thecelticforge]

Seems you are real familiar with the bbees wax,,,Have you tried paint and other choices?
He has to get his way for sure but diplomacy will be in yu allowing him to have your way. And that would be to get real familiar with several finishes and letting him choose your pick. And a third option that I like is watco dark walnut oil finish,,sold for wood but you may give it a try...

I have tried primer and paint and it had not done well for me at all. One little ding and bare metal shows. I just remembered the walnut stuff. i used to treat my traps with it. I will give that a try. Thanks!

[pkrankow]

Sounds like powder coat is the way to go, but most of us are not set up to use that...Of course the coating used will affect the price of the product.

Phil

[thecelticforge]

Sounds like powder coat is the way to go, but most of us are not set up to use that...Of course the coating used will affect the price of the product.

Phil

The price is going to go up if I have to polish, prime, and paint. I am not even set up for that. I guess I could make a spray booth in the back of the shop, but for just one customer?

I think I will try educating him first.

[pkrankow]

Try a tumble, acid bath, and bake. You also never mentioned the types and sizes of items involved.

Phil

[thecelticforge]

Try a tumble, acid bath, and bake. You also never mentioned the types and sizes of items involved.

Phil

It's all small stuff. Treble cleft chimes, pot racks and hooks, and horse shoes welded shut at the heels for a game called "lucky O's." I found a local guy that does powder coating. If the customer insists on having the items painted then I will pass on the cost of the powder coating to him. ;)

[Frosty]

Most powder coating doesn't hold up well outdoors but it's getting better.

For durable I like self priming epoxy paint, you can get spray cans and not mess with two part. Of course there's nothing wrong with Krylon. Besides you wanted to build that tumbler anyway didn't you?

Before you invest too much "educating" him consider losing the emotional investment in the pieces. Nobody pays for your emotional investment, they want what they want and the key to success is many fold but two are near the top. #1 Give the customers what they want at competitive prices. #2 If you can't make a profit drop the item.

Oh yeah, educate who? Wrought iron has been getting painted since paint was invented, since Rome, maybe earlier.

Frosty the Lucky.

[canada goose]

painting something that is going to be thrown at an iron stake ("like horseshoes")is just plain stupid.

[Sweany]

try black laquer and laquer thinner, 1 to 1 ratio.
parts must be free of rust

I've found that holds up as good as anything.

[arftist]

Powder coating would be a serious waste of money in this instance. Cars, homes and wrought iron rails need to be repainted ocasionaly. Look into paint dipping instead of spraing, especialy for small items. Cheaper, easier, and far more enviromentaly freindly than spraying.

[Marcus Hopfinger]

You mention he trades in "mountain man" stuff...is this for rendezvous/buckskinning or more decorative/tourist type of sales? If it is for rendezvous/buckskinning I would think that the beeswax finish would be much more desireable as it would be more authentic. Even if it is just for decorative use or sales to non-reenactor types a more traditional treatment would probably be more appealing I would think.

[Junksmith]

Many items I heat to black with a weed burner torch and dip them in a mix of equal parts motor oil, linseed oil, and paint thinner. Wipe off the excess and you've got a finish that prevents rust in most sheltered environments and the color won't change since it is a characteristic of the metal now. It doesn't work for everything of course, but with a big enough torch you can treat a dozen small items at a time.

[Frosty]

painting something that is going to be thrown at an iron stake ("like horseshoes")is just plain stupid.

So long as the customer pays the bill, does it really matter? Besides some of the items were to be a brushed finish, the ring toss things maybe. Regardless, what a customer does with an item once s/he's paid for it is their business so long as it doesn't come back on me and that's what contracts are for, even if it's just a disclaimer on the recipt.

Frosty the Lucky.

[Dragons lair]

Most powder coating doesn't hold up well outdoors but it's getting better.

For durable I like self priming epoxy paint, you can get spray cans and not mess with two part. Of course there's nothing wrong with Krylon. Besides you wanted to build that tumbler anyway didn't you?

Before you invest too much "educating" him consider losing the emotional investment in the pieces. Nobody pays for your emotional investment, they want what they want and the key to success is many fold but two are near the top. #1 Give the customers what they want at competitive prices. #2 If you can't make a profit drop the item.

Oh yeah, educate who? Wrought iron has been getting painted since paint was invented, since Rome, maybe earlier.

Frosty the Lucky.

Jer I wasen't going to go there but I must. Worked in Fl for a major outdoor
Patio/beach furniture co. Early yrs our powder coat was warrentied for life.
Wanted to coat my 48 Indian. the local stripper said " don't screw it up cause i can't strip it"(60s-mid 70s) Co went to cheaper powder. No more warrenty on paint. Ya can stick weld aluminum Ya can mig it or do it right and tig it.
point is are we talking H-F powdercoat or some place that has a 1/2 million $
set up. In my case we were offered the optimum pkg. purchasing sold a part of the system(No need) WRONG. Co went from a 22Mil Co to a 2 mil who lost?
Now work for me. Goats are great best kids you will ever have. NO drugs, or bad habits.Well a little medicinal Red man for worms.
Ken.

[mashin' metal]

Ahem..... I have to say you are waaaaaaay incorrect mr. frosty on your Powder coating information.
I happen to have first hand knowledge here as its what I do for a living.
There are a xxxx ton of weather durable powders available, there are mixes specifically for durability and UV degradation etc etc.
I was going to recommend to the OP that he have the guy enlist the services of a good knowledgeable powder coater.
There is no way I would choose "paint" over "powder" if I had the option, especially wouldnt choose krylon, even the worst of powder is better that spray bomb.
Please visit my web , as I guess its my resume for ya to look at so, you might get the idea I speak from experience.
pluuuus, I came here to learn smithing and I have learned tons and tons, so I get to pay back with knowledge of what I do in this instance.

 

On 9/22/2010 at 9:40 PM, Frosty said:

Most powder coating doesn't hold up well outdoors but it's getting better.

For durable I like self priming epoxy paint, you can get spray cans and not mess with two part. Of course there's nothing wrong with Krylon. Besides you wanted to build that tumbler anyway didn't you?

Before you invest too much "educating" him consider losing the emotional investment in the pieces. Nobody pays for your emotional investment, they want what they want and the key to success is many fold but two are near the top. #1 Give the customers what they want at competitive prices. #2 If you can't make a profit drop the item.

Oh yeah, educate who? Wrought iron has been getting painted since paint was invented, since Rome, maybe earlier.

Frosty the Lucky.

[ianinsa]

Well here's my $0.02 worth I made Wrought beach umbrella stands for the One & Only hotel in Jumera Dubai. We had them powder coated first then we treated them with Baroque Art gilders paste then they were clear powder coated again. This stands up to them being in the sea and on the beach so I am in awe as to what good powder coaters can do! However for things that get bashed and abused we use self etch black primer made for the fireplace industry (the brand we use is Plascon coastcote)but I'm sure there are many other similar products, it gives a nice matt finish and does not abrade or rub off. In fact if you heat it a bit after drying it it sticks like s**t to a blanket. You need special thinners but goes a long way! Therefore cheap(naw inexpensive) just the I like it.
Regards Ian

[Frosty]

Ahem..... I have to say you are waaaaaaay incorrect mr. frosty on your Powder coating information.
I happen to have first hand knowledge here as its what I do for a living.
There are a shit ton of weather durable powders available, there are mixes specifically for durability and UV degradation etc etc.
I was going to recommend to the OP that he have the guy enlist the services of a good knowledgeable powder coater.
There is no way I would choose "paint" over "powder" if I had the option, especially wouldnt choose krylon, even the worst of powder is better that spray bomb.
Please visit my web , as I guess its my resume for ya to look at so, you might get the idea I speak from experience.
pluuuus, I came here to learn smithing and I have learned tons and tons, so I get to pay back with knowledge of what I do in this instance.

I'm actually glad to be corrected on this score, any actually, I'd rather learn the straight poop than win a disagreement any day.

I was pretty excited to learn about powder coating some years back and was rather disappointed at the real world results here in harsh weather land. I'd heard great things but kept seeing poor products.

I agree too that these things often depend on the quality of the raw materials and application.

Anywho, I'll take the word of a pro over my observations most any day, I've been wrong enough times I've at least learned I'm WAY far from perfect.

Thanks Tim, your addition here is further proof of what makes these kinds of Fora such great places to hang out.

Frosty the Lucky.

[Carol Sartor]

Jer I wasen't going to go there but I must. Worked in Fl for a major outdoor
Patio/beach furniture co. Early yrs our powder coat was warrentied for life.
Wanted to coat my 48 Indian. the local stripper said " don't screw it up cause i can't strip it"(60s-mid 70s) Co went to cheaper powder. No more warrenty on paint. Ya can stick weld aluminum Ya can mig it or do it right and tig it.
point is are we talking H-F powdercoat or some place that has a 1/2 million $
set up. In my case we were offered the optimum pkg. purchasing sold a part of the system(No need) WRONG. Co went from a 22Mil Co to a 2 mil who lost?
Now work for me. Goats are great best kids you will ever have. NO drugs, or bad habits.Well a little medicinal Red man for worms.
Ken.

 

 

Ahem..... I have to say you are waaaaaaay incorrect mr. frosty on your Powder coating information.
I happen to have first hand knowledge here as its what I do for a living.
There are a shit ton of weather durable powders available, there are mixes specifically for durability and UV degradation etc etc.
I was going to recommend to the OP that he have the guy enlist the services of a good knowledgeable powder coater.
There is no way I would choose "paint" over "powder" if I had the option, especially wouldnt choose krylon, even the worst of powder is better that spray bomb.
Please visit my web , as I guess its my resume for ya to look at so, you might get the idea I speak from experience.
pluuuus, I came here to learn smithing and I have learned tons and tons, so I get to pay back with knowledge of what I do in this instance.

Instead of powder coating one can use the furniture cover some outdoor furniture cover.

[Frosty]

this kind of cover sort of defeats the purpose of decorative hand forged items. Finding a finish that will protect iron work and look attractive is a common goal amongst blacksmiths.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mark Emig]

I have used powdercoating quite a bit. It does have it's limitations in comparison to paint. The  main problem with powdercoating is in tight areas-like the "V" where scrolls branch off each other. The powder has issues getting in and sticking in areas like that. I look at the design before I choose paint or powder. I have it done by a very good company here -Technical Coatings. I usully consult with them before I have it done. I get an honest answer-most reputable coating guys don't want anything coming back any more than you do.