Post vise from pick

[don't tread on me]

What do you guys think of this idea I got last night. Take two picks and make a post vise out of them. I would buy one but here they are hard to find. If it works I will post some pics.

[Frosty]

My first thought is you' need to change your web-handle to "Don't Pick on Me" but I'm known for my low sense of humor. Of course I LIKE the rep and build on it any chance I get.

I can't say about the idea though, not without more info on your plans. There's a huge different between an idea and a usable plan. Made any drawings? Even sketches are useful for turning an idea into a working plan.

Frosty the Lucky.

[fciron]

Um, my first thought was "How do two picks even begin to make a post vise?" So pictures are a necessity.



I suppose you mean to hinge them at one end and pass your screw through the eyes?

That might give you a post vise shaped object (PVSA?) but getting it to work properly could easily be more work than starting with square stock forging the whole thing. The punched hole in the legs of a post vice has a lot more mass and a smaller through hole than a pick's eye. The thickness of the pick parts are smaller than the legs of most post vices, so there's not much there to make your hinge. I foresee a vice shaped object that collapses at the eye the first time you put some weight on the handle.

The hard part of building your own vise is less the legs than the screw-box. A nice big acme thread made in one piece with the thrust collar and a nice box to screw it into instead of a nut are the tricky parts. (although an acme nut would work.) IIRC a new screw and nut cost close to a decent used vise.

[don't tread on me]

I don't know how well you can see this pic but this is the idea.

[don't tread on me]

opps didn't up load

[pkrankow]

Trash compactors typically have a couple serious screws in them....

If you are welding like that how easy is it to get some 1 inch stock of some type and fabricate from that? (half shafts or axle maybe?) Drifting a 1 inch (or larger) hole becomes the challenge. My pick-mattock is less than 3/4 square on the pick end, and only about 3/8 thick on the mattock end. My post vise is heavier than 1 inch stock, but it is a 60# vise. Yea I know a 60# vise is a heavy typical size, but nothing exceptional.

You are thinking, and I think it could work, but there may be an easier way. If you have several extra picks on hand then that changes things.

Phil

[don't tread on me]

I think I can do it and I think I am going to try the hard part will be getting a screw that is big enaf.

[pkrankow]

I think I can do it and I think I am going to try the hard part will be getting a screw that is big enaf.

Get the screw before getting crazy on the fabrication.

Phil

[Frosty]

I think I've got a general idea of what you're thinking. While I'm sure it can be done I don't know how well it'll work as an every day tool. If it were a simpler conversion it'd be a terrific field expedient for those times you REALLY need a thing and have no choice but to make do.

As an everyday tool though I think it's going to be pretty light and weight is what deals with impact energies in use. for bending, twisting and the like a machinist's vise works just fine. A leg vise is really intended to take heavy hammer blows rather than precision work.

Were I doing it I think I'd just buy some steel and so some cutting, heating, bending, forging, punching and just make one. While I was taking the trash compacter apart for the screw and related parts I'd be thinking of where the motor was going and how to mount the switch conveniently.

On a similar note, I do want to build a leg vise but instead of a screw use an air brake can for squeeze and maybe interchangeable jaw dies.

It is worth thinking about though, leg vises are hard to find many places and a good work around is a good thing.

Frosty the Lucky.

[pkrankow]

I'd be thinking of where the motor was going and how to mount the switch conveniently.

Frosty the Lucky.

The motor is usually bad when the compactor gets trashed. At least in my compactor that was why I evicted it from the kitchen, and later took apart.

yes, I have 3 screws and 3 steel nuts for said screws (and I think 3 plastic nuts too) from said evicted compactor. The frame is upside-down and makes up my "hot" table.

Phil

[Frosty]

The motor is usually bad when the compactor gets trashed. At least in my compactor that was why I evicted it from the kitchen, and later took apart.

yes, I have 3 screws and 3 steel nuts for said screws (and I think 3 plastic nuts too) from said evicted compactor. The frame is upside-down and makes up my "hot" table.

Phil

Yeah, you're probably right. Looks like I'm back to the airbrake can idea.

Frosty the Lucky.

[fciron]

Given the amount of fabrication involved I would try to find something heavier than a pick. I don't think the mass around the pick's eye is in the right place to handle the forces involved.

Your plan already has welds above and below the eye, so why not use a short section of something heavier with a hole in it. A piece burnt out of plate could serve as well or better, or a machinery part with a big hole through it. I think trying to use the pick eye is a false economy, the shape only seems the same.

[Frosty]

Given the amount of fabrication involved I would try to find something heavier than a pick. I don't think the mass around the pick's eye is in the right place to handle the forces involved.

Your plan already has welds above and below the eye, so why not use a short section of something heavier with a hole in it. A piece burnt out of plate could serve as well or better, or a machinery part with a big hole through it. I think trying to use the pick eye is a false economy, the shape only seems the same.

These are some of the things I was thinking myself. I've done a lot of fab over the years and I could probably weld one up in a few hours not counting finding the steel.

However, as a field expedient it isn't a bad idea. I think I'd use one pic and something else to make the fixed jaw from. Say a few feet of RR rail.

Removing most of the flange can be done with a saw, even a hack saw if you're determined, mount the blade sideways to clear of course. I'd leave a couple inches of the flange on the "bottom" or foot end and a little near the "jaws" for mounting brackets. I'd then get rid of most of the web, leaving a piece a couple inches wide so I could punch or drill a hole the pick end, once rounded into a tennon and bent 90* would fit nicely.

Well, before modifying the rail I think I'd determine what I had for a screw or other squeezer thingy, a hand pumped porta power would work nicely. You get the idea, scrounge first, THEN plan the device.

So, lets assume I have either a BIG old C clamp that's broken so using the acme screw and box wouldn't be criminal.

Alright, I've got my squeezer mechanism! How to use it? I'm thinking I'd look around for a drill bit just a tad larger than the acme box, anneal the rail where the screw would match up and drill a through hole then weld the acme box in the hole.

The next step is to forge the handle eye on the pick head closed and reduce the width. I'd use a piece of round stock half agan as large around as the acme screw so it moved and pivoted as the jaw moved in and out.

Cool so far. Next is forge up a crank handle and ball for it to slip through, don't forget to upset the ends so it doesn't fall out. Thread or just weld the ball and handle on the end of the acme screw. That part's done now.

The next thing to do is determine just where on the remaining web the tennon will make up while the jaw end however it ends up formed meets where it should. Punch the hole for the tennon and saw or chisel or whatever the excess web out of the way.

Done? "WAIT!" you say, "the parts of the flange you left are on the same side as the moving jaw! That ain't gonna work worth spit unless you can turn the crank against the post! Frosty you are a KNUCKLEHEAD!

HAH! A blacksmith with a good hot fire and a piece of steel facing the wrong way is a problem? Bring the rail up to a nice bright red or even low orange, let it soak and twist the fixed jaw around so it's facing the mobile jaw and let it cool. Do NOT quench it! Rail is high carbon and you don't need it HARD!

Now all that's left to do is drill a couple holes in the pieces of flange you cleverly left so you can screw it to a post and it's a done deal.

All that's left is a spring, use your imagination eh?

Okay, the pick head isn't going to be heavy nor rigid enough to make a fully functional leg vise but if it's all you have at least you have that. Of course you could use a piece of old "I" beam or wide flange just like the pick head with some small mods to the plan but what the hey, you're a blacksmith and it's just defenseless steel.

Frosty the Lucky.

[fciron]

Frosty,

you've actually proved the point I was trying to make: The outside of the pick eye is the same shape as the swelling around the punched hole in the post vise, but it's not the same thing.

Your plan calls for forging down the eye. You're destroying the one part of the pick that actually looks like a post vise.

With all that work it would be easier to punch a hole in something appropriate. Although you could use your broken g-clamp and pick to approximate a really huge hold-down clamp if you had a table with a hole in it. I have a bad feeling that I might need one of those. :blink:

[Frosty]

Frosty,

you've actually proved the point I was trying to make: The outside of the pick eye is the same shape as the swelling around the punched hole in the post vise, but it's not the same thing.

Your plan calls for forging down the eye. You're destroying the one part of the pick that actually looks like a post vise.

With all that work it would be easier to punch a hole in something appropriate. Although you could use your broken g-clamp and pick to approximate a really huge hold-down clamp if you had a table with a hole in it. I have a bad feeling that I might need one of those.

I got your point, we're on the same page. (except for the handle eye part, I can't think of a part of one of my leg vises it reminds me of:unsure:) What I was saying is there are times when you have no choice but to use what you have. What I laid out is something that could be made to work, not what I'd do given a choice even with the same resources. Heck if I had enough rail to make the stationary jaw and leg I'd make the whole thing from it and mount it higher.

I have a decent shop: cut off saw, drill press, lathe, 375amp multi process portable welder, light duty mig, torch, forge, anvils, power hammer, hand tools out the wazoo, a decent quantity of stock and darned near 50 years of experience. Then again, I spent 20 years as an exploration driller for AK DOT highways geology, doing exactly the kind of thing I played around with making a pickhead leg vise.

I mean really, if I were a practical kind of guy, heck if any of us were, we'd just buy the things we want/need made of iron at the local import shop instead of sweating over a fire swinging HEAVY tools.

I play with fire and hit things because it's fun.

Frosty the Lucky.

[jcornell]

What do you guys think of this idea I got last night. Take two picks and make a post vise out of them. I would buy one but here they are hard to find. If it works I will post some pics.

Mr Gilbert posted a design for a "vertical vise" on the ABANA page - I think it was from 2003.

VerticalVise.pdf

[pkrankow]

5/8 diameter, 8 pitch, 16 inch LOA, the plastic gear is threaded too, one end has a nut (1/4-20 I think), the other a square drive. There is a matching 5/8 steel square nut with it. This is from the old trash compactor I was talking about.

PM me your address if you want it. I'll wrap it up and USPS it.

Phil

[edge9001]

5/8 diameter, 8 pitch, 16 inch LOA, the plastic gear is threaded too, one end has a nut (1/4-20 I think), the other a square drive. There is a matching 5/8 steel square nut with it. This is from the old trash compactor I was talking about.

PM me your address if you want it. I'll wrap it up and USPS it.

Phil

I could use on of those if you have extras, phil. what do you want for one? pm me

[Crunch]

the hard part will be getting a screw that is big enaf.

Use-Enco.com sells Acme screws. In fact I just bought a 1-1/8"-5 screw that was on sale for less than half price. I think I got one that was 3' long for $20.

[jimbob]

you could also use the screw and nut from and old office chair

[Mainely,Bob]

Or an old scissors jack.
If it will lift a car then it ought to be able to hold your project.

[ianinsa]

there is an easier solution= builders prop jack= good quality Acme thread, many around often scraped & cheap. What more do you want?????????????
regards Ian

[ianinsa]

there is an easier solution= builders prop jack= good quality Acme thread, many around often scraped & cheap. What more do you want????????????? Beats the pants off a jack! And can handle serious abuse- something blackshiths occasionaly do to their tools.
regards Ian

[ThomasPowers]

There is a pick variant that has a thick heavy DULL end on it---looks a lot like a post vise jaw if it was heated up and bent 90 deg....