Unions!

[Bentiron1946]

Bob, I agree with you about "owning" the job but there are some industries that defy you to own the the "job". I'm not a unionist, two of my uncles were and my dad was anti-union, but some occupations do need to have union protection of some kind and for them I think that you will never own the "job", mining is one of these. It hazardous to the maximum and needed the protection of the union in years past and now as well as the Federal government. Mining companies still do not care for their workers as they should. Look at the miners killed this past year, I think that they were failed by both the union and the Federal regulators that were supposed to watch over them and the company. Was the union corrupt or the regulators lax? Either way they didn't what they needed and "owing the job" didn't get them anything but death.
I have had the pleasure of working for a really good number of bosses over the years. One I followed through three companies and I didn't get a whole lot extra for following but had a great time in the working. It didn't change my attitude about work, I worked hard all the time, even when one company owner said to me that he wasn't going to give me a raise because he didn't see how I could work much harder and the only reason to give a raise was to get a person to work harder. I thought I had never heard such a stupid statement in all my life, the next day I quit and so did my friend "the boss", before I had finished packing up my stuff I had a nice raise. The owner of the company had decided that even if I couldn't work any harder I was still making him to much money for me to leave his employment for another company. I truly did own my job. :P

[monstermetal]

I think this article sums up the reality of our work force... And is my position that trying to force employers into labor contracts has directly resulted in our current situation.. How is the union going to fix this problem? My feeling is the union went a long way towards causing this problem.... What do you guys think?

From The Business Insider,

Editor's note: Michael Snyder is editor of theeconomiccollapseblog.com

The 22 statistics detailed here prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the middle class is being systematically wiped out of existence in America.

The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer at a staggering rate. Once upon a time, the United States had the largest and most prosperous middle class in the history of the world, but now that is changing at a blinding pace.

So why are we witnessing such fundamental changes? Well, the globalism and "free trade" that our politicians and business leaders insisted would be so good for us have had some rather nasty side effects. It turns out that they didn't tell us that the "global economy" would mean that middle class American workers would eventually have to directly compete for jobs with people on the other side of the world where there is no minimum wage and very few regulations. The big global corporations have greatly benefited by exploiting third world labor pools over the last several decades, but middle class American workers have increasingly found things to be very tough.

Here are the statistics to prove it:

• 83 percent of all U.S. stocks are in the hands of 1 percent of the people.
• 61 percent of Americans "always or usually" live paycheck to paycheck, which was up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.
• 66 percent of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.
• 36 percent of Americans say that they don't contribute anything to retirement savings.
• A staggering 43 percent of Americans have less than $10,000 saved up for retirement.
• 24 percent of American workers say that they have postponed their planned retirement age in the past year.
• Over 1.4 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy in 2009, which represented a 32 percent increase over 2008.
• Only the top 5 percent of U.S. households have earned enough additional income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975.
• For the first time in U.S. history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together.
• In 1950, the ratio of the average executive's paycheck to the average worker's paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.
• As of 2007, the bottom 80 percent of American households held about 7% of the liquid financial assets.
• The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth.
• Average Wall Street bonuses for 2009 were up 17 percent when compared with 2008.
• In the United States, the average federal worker now earns 60% MORE than the average worker in the private sector.
• The top 1 percent of U.S. households own nearly twice as much of America's corporate wealth as they did just 15 years ago.
• In America today, the average time needed to find a job has risen to a record 35.2 weeks.
• More than 40 percent of Americans who actually are employed are now working in service jobs, which are often very low paying.
• or the first time in U.S. history, more than 40 million Americans are on food stamps, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture projects that number will go up to 43 million Americans in 2011.
• This is what American workers now must compete against: in China a garment worker makes approximately 86 cents an hour and in Cambodia a garment worker makes approximately 22 cents an hour.
• Approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010 - the highest rate in 20 years.
• Despite the financial crisis, the number of millionaires in the United States rose a whopping 16 percent to 7.8 million in 2009.
• The top 10 percent of Americans now earn around 50 percent of our national income.

Giant Sucking Sound

The reality is that no matter how smart, how strong, how educated or how hard working American workers are, they just cannot compete with people who are desperate to put in 10 to 12 hour days at less than a dollar an hour on the other side of the world. After all, what corporation in their right mind is going to pay an American worker 10 times more (plus benefits) to do the same job? The world is fundamentally changing. Wealth and power are rapidly becoming concentrated at the top and the big global corporations are making massive amounts of money. Meanwhile, the American middle class is being systematically wiped out of existence as U.S. workers are slowly being merged into the new "global" labor pool.

What do most Americans have to offer in the marketplace other than their labor? Not much. The truth is that most Americans are absolutely dependent on someone else giving them a job. But today, U.S. workers are "less attractive" than ever. Compared to the rest of the world, American workers are extremely expensive, and the government keeps passing more rules and regulations seemingly on a monthly basis that makes it even more difficult to conduct business in the United States.

So corporations are moving operations out of the U.S. at breathtaking speed. Since the U.S. government does not penalize them for doing so, there really is no incentive for them to stay.

What has developed is a situation where the people at the top are doing quite well, while most Americans are finding it increasingly difficult to make it. There are now about six unemployed Americans for every new job opening in the United States, and the number of "chronically unemployed" is absolutely soaring. There simply are not nearly enough jobs for everyone.

Many of those who are able to get jobs are finding that they are making less money than they used to. In fact, an increasingly large percentage of Americans are working at low wage retail and service jobs.

But you can't raise a family on what you make flipping burgers at McDonald's or on what you bring in from greeting customers down at the local Wal-Mart.

The truth is that the middle class in America is dying -- and once it is gone it will be incredibly difficult to rebuild.

[clinton]

Larry you just pointed out why we need unions- to protect the workers rights not every one wants to work 10 - 12 hrs a day
Looks like these other countries that are getting the jobs need some strength in unity
As far as sending the jobs away all we can do is try to buy American made products and yes they are still out there you just have to look
Unions are governed by rank and file so if what is going on is not right then the membership itself is to blame and they need to step up and take action

[monstermetal]

I agree with the thought but not the reality. The reality is In a global economy we have to play with the whole world they are not going to play fair. If we don't want to be swallowed by china and other up and coming wold powers we need to understand will will have to work longer hours for less pay. Union workers say it's not fair. Ok I agree. What in life is? So you suggest we all go down with the ship on principal? Not me

[monstermetal]

We as Americans have been lead to believe we can demand a quality of life the rest of the world has to work for. The time has come for the bubble to burst. I don't like it. I wish I could be Handed a fat check and have a retirement that didn't involve me working till I'm 95. But I see the big picture and I choose to not part of it. We as a whole nation need to wake up and get back to work. In the times past we worked hard, maybe too hard. But today most Americans are anything but overworked and underpaid

[Mainely,Bob]

What Clint said,and to expand upon that it`s not the other counties or even our own government who is largely to blame to this mass exodus of jobs and loss of the middle class.We have ourselves to blame and it`s our personal responsibility to bring it back.
We need to be more aware of the power our spending holds and what that dollar you pull from your pocket really does after it leaves your hand.
Whenever you buy anything what that dollar is doing is supporting whatever the source of those goods or services is based on.If you want to keep our economy alive and healthy and want jobs to stay here or return here then your spending must reflect that.You can`t bemoan the lack of jobs/unemployment situation here at home and then go out and buy things that send our dollars offshore.You,personally,really do have to choose by way of the dollars you spend if you want to make a difference.
If everyone in this country stopped buying(mostly with credit) cheap offshore goods made of substandard material and produced by less than skilled workers then there would be no need to import them as the market would simply dry up and cease to exist.
By buying those substandard goods made in hazardous environments by less than skilled workers being paid less than living wages you are saying that all those things are agreeable to you.As a secondary point,you are also saying a less than quality,non-durable product is also OK with you and you are also good with tossing it at the end of it`s short life to become yet another item in our already overburdened landfills.
Our "economy" is proving more and more to be a false economy.The answer lies in 2 simple things,your wallet and your feet.If you walk away and don`t buy then it will no longer be offered.That`s how your job,the mom and pop store on the corner,the independent grocer,the local farmer and most local(now US made)goods went away.If you want all those things back start using your brain to connect to those 2 simple things and turn your words into actions.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I see some of this at work. We have lost jobs to machine shops in France, and Switzerland due to our high cost of labor. Great pay, and benefits doesn't do you squat if the company you work for cannot keep the doors open.

Hypothetical question here. Say we all made no more than $8 per hr. Would a house cost $200,000, or a car $20,000? When my Dad started at Mare Island Naval Shipyard in 1967 as a journeyman machinist he was making $3.90 per hr. His new 66 GMC truck with almost all the bells and whistles was still under $3,000. The 1,437 sqft house on .26AC he bought in 1967 was $22,500. I paid that much for a used 2001 Dodge 1 ton a few years ago. It is all relative. We make upwards of 10x what we used to, but everything costs 10x more now. The problem now is that we are not making the items we are buying, someone in another country is. The money is not staying HERE where it should. We are even importing FOOD from other countries because it costs more to harvest some crops here than the farmer can sell them for! Before I left CA in 05 a pear orchard back home had let the crops from the last 5 years hit the ground due to this. There is something TERRIBLY wrong when we start depending on food from other countries.

I think we are in for a very rude awakening if we do not do something soon. The current administration seems to be doing everything it can to thwart business. The stimulus hasn't worked, and NV where I live has surpassed MI in unemployment with 14.2% Construction trades are double that. With the way Gov't is spending OUR money we could be bankrupt as a country very soon. Then what will we do? How long will we have to learn to speak Chinese? :unsure:

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

In response to Mainely Bob

Getting someone who is paycheck to paycheck to buy something that costs 3x less than something made in the USA will be tough. Just finding items made in the USA is hard enough! Name one tennis shoe, TV, or electronics mfg that is 100% USA. I get sick looking at labels on clothing, tools, and even food items, and not seeing Product of the USA, not packaged in USA, or assembled in USA with imported whatever, but PRODUCT OF THE USA. Can you believe I have had a hard time finding 100% USA made apple juice!?!? Concentrate from Argentina, China, etc. AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!! Take work boots for an example. Red Wings (even some of these are China now) made in USA $150 a pair. Chinese work boots $40-$50 a pair. A guy can but 3-4 pair for what one pair of Red Wings cost. Agreed you are lucky to get more than 2 years from a pair, but try to explain that to a guy who is 1 paycheck from being homeless. The other problem is that in most cases it costs more to get items repaired than it costs to buy a new one.

I cruise the thrift stores to buy USA made items rather than buying new Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, etc items.

I fully agree to buy USA, but it getting increasingly more difficult to do so. We as a society have embraced the cheap crap, spend more than you make, throw away lifestyle and it is killing us from within.

I have paid CASH for everything other than my house, and I have skills that I hope can keep food on my table, and a roof over my head. Being single it is easier for me to make some changes in my lifestyle. I know how to pinch a penny so tight Lincoln gets a headache. An example: todays forecast is a high of 113. Is the AC on? Nope. May fire the swamp cooler up later. I sleep on a hammock outside during the summer to beat the heat, and cooling bills. I have friends who are paying $200-$500 a month during the summer, not me. I don't know if anyone else will agree with me, but I think we as Americans have grown soft, and cannot handle hardships. Just listen how people complain about not having AC for a day or two. What?! You don't have bottled water! Tap water tastes nasty. Give me a break, what did your parents, or grandparents drink? Oh No I have to wait 2 minutes in traffic. It's 2 minutes, get over it. I want it, and I want it now, get the credit card. I would rather pay CASH than be a slave to a CC company.

Rant over, for now.

[Swamptroll]

No matter how you look at it we have lost what made this country great and that was our manufacturing ability.
If there was a war who will do the manufacturing for us?

[Mills]

Monstermetal I have seen that website before. I am suspicious of any commentary on a site that looks like it is a moneymaker from what it comments on. i.e. gold, silver, MRE's.

With that being said the 22 proofs really aren't very good stats. I agree that some of the statements (vs statistics) are good for provoking thought but seem to be pretty strident. That list is also cherry picked from a variety of sources.

#1 & #3 According to the source he is using Harvard Magazine that is an accurate statement. But that is not quite how the original source reads. It is a reference to the borrowing that took place and the results of it. The stats used are onesided as well. Basically everybody was borrowing and spending like no tomorrow. Where? well the middle class is the consumers the majority of the population. What was bought? Overpriced houses and vehicles and lots of consumable but little capital improvement. I point out as well that the top 1% are frugal or cheap *** depending on if they are buying from you or not. When money gets to them it stops and is saved or invested. If they borrow it is for something that will produce income rather than go down in value. So money will always flow that way. as natural as a river. That's my take on it.

#2 "61 percent of Americans "always or usually" live paycheck to paycheck, which was up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007." Yeah.....the slant is aimed at making the middle class feel threatened. He doesn't mention what the income levels are does he? For some anecdotal evidence which is as good as this statement, my recieves telephone calls all day long from people who have trouble with their Credit Cards. She has relayed numerous occasions where unfortunate people thru circumstances beyond their control are needing to increase their credit line. Many times while standing in line with several hundred dollars of merchandise, or at a gas station trying to get home. or at a restaurant where they just treated some friends. usually these individuals are middle income and make 150,000 or less per year. However, almost monthly, such as the fellow at the gas station he made 500k/yr 11 credit cards and was denied again because of being overextended. So the number of people living paycheck to paycheck are making pretty good incomes but are spending even more than that.

#7 mmmhmm see above

#8 yeah and look at what houses of today look like compared to 1975 Square footage is more, brick has given way to rock, marble/granite countertops, pricey appliances and carpet throughout.

#10 consider the source Smirking Chimp trbute to the worst president ever

Each of the 'proofs' are suspect at some levels. As is my refutation of them. See I don't think jumping up and down and shouting is gonna help. I'd like to think that we will produce some sane rational LEADERS that will go to the State and Federal capitals and sort out this mess. Beginning with the question "how are you planning to pay for this program?" I hold up Tom Coburn as an example. My mother will disown me for going public like that. Both parents are ardent Southern Democrats.

For the comments on the buy American. We need a level playing field. As a businessman I'll pay good money for good work. Quality means a lot to me. Suppose I have the ability to hire either a man for an 8 hr day, 5 days a week w bennies and there are somethings he doesn't do or a mojado who'll be there early stay late and always has a cousin who would like to help if needed. Guess who I'd rather pay the same money to? Immigration trouble is part of it. So is an undervalued yuan.

John Larson related to me who he listens to for current economic news and ries has some good input as well. For a conservative view Pete Morici and a bit more liberal Concord Coalition. Morici really gets after the Chinese. I agree, How is it that one of the better selling hammers comes from China. It isn't so much the low wages as it is the undervalued yuan. From what I am understanding, if the exchange rates were closer together between US and China a lot of the national debt would disappear. Now I am in over my head at this point so it would not be hard to hold me down and watch me bubble.

I have a growing conviction that blacksmiths represent a movement to return this nation to some sense of order. It seems all of us no matter what our social or religious beliefs may be, are a pretty conservative bunch that BELIEVE in a strong work ethic and have a tremendous sense of justice.

[Fosterob]

Most of what everyone is saying is seems right. Think back to the last time this country was truly great, I would guess that to be the 1950's-early 60's. a single income could have the american dream, house,wife,kids,new car, etc... Did we import a bunch of xxxx from overseas? American labor- probably being led by Detroit auto unions was the highest paid in the world. Those workers spent the money they made on other made in USA items and the economy was booming.
I remember NAFTA (north american free trade agreement) was supposed to allow the USA to bring goods to and from Mexico. I think that was the cause of the "immigration problem" that some people complain about now. NAFTA allowed American big agrobusiness to dump corn on the Mexican market. Do you think that when the Mexican people went to there local stores and saw corn from USA for 1/4 the price of the local corn they were going to buy local? Mexican farming was done on a local level and that put millions of local Mexican farmers out of work almost overnight. Nothing to do but go to USA to get work. Or start working for drug cartell, they will pay $.
So if we in this country think that some poor wal-mart worker is going to buy anything other than wal-mart xxxx think again because there is no money in the paycheck to do so. Those of you who choose to blame the people for buying cheap items put the blame where it is due.
I personally do not set foot in that place and will buy used made in USA before import whenever possible.
Back to blame, where should it go? Is it right to blame the people? I do not think so because most of the general public is just trying to stay afloat and that dosn't leave much time to ponder the state of affairs we are currently in. So then can we blame the government? Maybe in a roundabout sort of way. (ya-all try not to get to excited now) The American government is nothing but a puppet for the large american corporations that are outsourcing all of our jobs to china, cambodia.... That ball started rolling when the government stepped in to help a corporation in Hawaii. We now own it. Once that door was open it started snowballing and look where we are now. The way I see it all of our foreign policy is to benefit the corporation at the expense of the American people.
The answer as I see it is to eliminate all imports or charge a large enough tariff on those goods that are imported to level the playing field between domestically made goods and imported goods. (example: If is takes $40,000 to buy a truck made with union labor from Detroit but the auto company can make the same truck overseas and bring it here for $18,000 then the tariff on that truck would be $22,000. Money the company would pay the US gov to be allowed to bring it into the country.) If that happened would the companies bring cheap xxxx here. Nobody would buy it because the USA product would almost always be better quality.
That will never happen because the corporations are running the government. Greed is the downfall. Those large corporations that are in that position were put there buy employing union workers and selling good products to americans with good paying jobs.

[Mainely,Bob]

One of the recurring thoughts about being a blacksmith or any other type of craftsman is independence.Independence in thought,word and actions.We don`t settle for what`s offered,we make our own or seek out someone who can do it for us and strike a deal bartering what we know for what we need.We help our own and seek the opportunities that allow us to further ourselves and our craft.We act as mentors and share our knowledge with those who ask and sometimes those who fail to ask but need it anyway.
Why should our financial/professional lives be any different from our craft?How many of us have gone without for a while to get a new bit of kit?How many do without for a while to rescue some old used up,wore out refugee from the scrap heap and did nothing more than dream of owning new?How many soak,scrape and wire brush old tools rather than buy cheap imported xxxx that is bound to fail in one way or another when you need it most?
How many build our own things like machines(tire hammers,bending or twisting machines,presses,etc),knives,hardware,even furniture from scrap rather than buy stamped sheet metal,chip board or poorly cast/manufactured garbage?
Why then do some of us still look to someone other than ourselves to turn things around?
How many of us are still filling our gas tanks at a BP gas station using a BP gas card?Did we wait for someone in politics to advise us to stop buying from them?

BTW-New Balance is a company that still make running and athletic shoes here in America.
There are some people who are taking this "Buy American" thing to heart.Chris Callen who puts out Cycle Source magazine has been running a column titled "Buy American or die" and lists those companies like Brach`s candy who have moved manufacturing facilities and jobs overseas so folks know where their dollars are going.They also offer info on US made products.All this from a mag that has kept their subscription rates to almost 1/2 of what others are charging($20 per year,$5 more for online access too),just so the working man can afford to read it.
There are folks bringing home made products and pride back around.It may take some digging to find them as you won`t find them in the big box stores down at the mall but then again you can`t find anvils,tongs or decent hammers there either.

[eric sprado]

I don't think current,past,or future administrations have much to do with it.. It is THE GENERAL CONSUMER !!!!! Remember when going to yard sales was a source of treasures? Now most of them are tables of plastic xxxx from Walmart!We get what we ask for. If we didn't demand xxxx it wouldn't pay for anyone to make it. Lead simpler lives. Buy well made things that will last.....

[pkrankow]

My wife just about tore my ear off for buying a Dewalt corded drill last month. I burned up a $20 drill in 3 months, so I spent $90 on something I wouldn't destroy. I don't like cordless because even the best quality have batteries that fail prematurely, and 2 new batteries cost about the same as a new drill.

If I get a job that cordless helps pay better, then my opinion will adjust accordingly.

The spend the least for the task is a heavily ingrained mentality...my wife expects nice things, but took some explaining that I like nice things that last too.

Phil

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

In regards to the batteries, there is a community college that advertises on my Craigslist for rebuilding them. Either they can do it, or they will send you the new guts. Price was around $30 if they did it.

[Fosterob]

eric sprado
Posted Yesterday, 09:56 AM
I don't think current,past,or future administrations have much to do with it.. It is THE GENERAL CONSUMER !!!!!

So eric, lets use wal-mart as an example-scapegoat. As they are biggest they are easy to pick onIt is a known fact that Wal-marts will put most ma and pa local stores out of business when they move into an area, so if the area is a smallish one and all the local stores are GONE how does the general consumer have a choice of what to buy? Some of us are lucky and can go to a another store but some places they are the only game in town. Most people think they are good because of low prices but at what cost? Most people do not have the time or especially money to shop at more expensive stores. If they live in a area where wal-mart drove out the local stores the people are probably working at wal mart and making minimum wage.
The income our gov gets from tariffs has dropped of considerably and that seems to parallel the explosion of cheap imports. How do you think the general consumer has anything to do with what our gov charges as tariff on incoming goods??? Times are changing and people need to open their eyes to how things are turning out.
Rob

[Mainely,Bob]

Suggestions,Rob?

[Fosterob]

Bob,
I think if I knew the answer to that question I may be next in line for president. As it stands now the only thing that I as a consumer has any control over is as eric sprado was saying, not to buy cheap imports from places like wal-mart. I think I said in an earlier post that I do not shop at those places and try to buy domestic product as much as possible.
Even though I buy domestic and avoid wal-mart type stores I also realize that my measly little purchases are not even close to being a drop in the bucket. Speck of mist that evaporates before hitting water maybe. I feel that our gov is a puppet for the large corporations that exploit cheap overseas resources and bring those products back here and price them more than they are worth. That being said how can we as a people get the government to change? At the risk of starting a political debate I will only say the people voted change into office last election and I am having a hard time seeing anything different. Sure they will throw us a bone every now and then but I am talking about major things like foreign policy, domestic education, military budget, health care, even food that is safe to eat and is healthy. This is not a one party is better than the other comment because both those parties are answering to the same special interests in washington.
In my opinion we have a gov of by the people-for the corporation. As monstermetal said earlier the rich are getting richer and the middle class is rapidly disappearing. If our system of gov was working properly we would not be in this situation now. As long as the gov keeps letting the stores be filled with cheap imported goods most people will buy them. Another example that comes to mind is the wall street bailout that happened recently, after the great depression of the 30's banking laws were put in place to curb greed and maybe in the 90's our gov bowed to the banking industry an did away with some of those laws. Everyone knows how that turned out because we are still feeling the depression. Why did the gov do that? So some wall stret banks could make more money? They already have most of it.
The only other thing that I try to do is vote accordingly but at this point I have very little faith that anything different will happen. So I try to educate others who may be interested in restoring our once great country to what we like to think it is. Thats why I post this. If enough people all think and believe the same way maybe our universal consciousness will initiate some meaningful change. Kind of like the 100th monkey. Enough rambles for now.
Thanks for your patience, buy domestic.
Rob

[monstermetal]

You know about the 100th Monkey? :blink: What about the conspiracy between the martins and the napkin makers union? B)

[Mainely,Bob]

Rob,

You bring up a good point about when big corporations move in most small time competition is put out of business.Seems at least up here that is being turned around.
While there are fast food chains(pick your poison,chicken,beef,mexican,italian,etc)all over in Maine what most folks who aren`t just passing through are favoring is local eateries,even if it`s deep fried or greasy grilled.Except for the big franchises on the main highways people"from away" don`t want exactly what they can get at home and the locals have always supported each other.Burger King and Taco Bell both left town soon after they came and inhabited their newly constructed buildings.
Likewise the tourists and locals both are looking for more things made by local craftsmen,someone they can visit with at their shop and talk to so they can have something made to fit their home or lifestyle rather than buy mass produced chain store items.Someone who stands behind what he makes and enjoys a good reputation.The galleries supporting local artists and craftsmen are getting more traffic than the tourist traps selling imported trinkets with lobsters and lighthouses on them,folks can buy that at home off a website.
The local Rite-aid pharmacy is going under and about to close after they put all the small drug stores out of business.Seems after the summer crowd left there wasn`t enough business to support their overhead so they let all but one druggist go.Summer crowd comes back,one fellow can`t handle the work load so now everyone`s fed up and drives out of town to get their prescriptions filled at the smaller surviving mom & pop drug stores.
Folks up here can`t always afford fuel oil on scheduled deliveries or 100 gallon only increments.Local energy companies came back and did away with minimum deliveries and forcing you to buy ALL your energy needs from them.Now the local companies and co-ops thrive again(our town is required by the voters to buy from local sources) and the big guns who once beat them down are retreating back to the cities.
The folks up here know fast food is unhealthy,big chain stores and corporations have no customer service,and cheap imported goods don`t last long and are false economy.If you don`t have the money to buy new you wait for the summer people to leave and then go down to the thrift stores and buy the stuff they leave behind,sometimes with the tags still on them.If you buy new you look for value,quality and durability and plan to pay for them with cash.Things like shoes,clothes and furniture get repaired up here rather than tossed and replaced.
We handle town and local business in an annual town meeting and open to the public selectmen`s meetings where everyone has a voice and a chance to respectfully say what they feel.That changes things from being an individual in a booth to a member of a community who listens to his neighbor and knows his neighbor has heard his side of the story too.
Maybe instead of trying to bring Maine up to date some of the people who come up here should slow down and pay attention to how the locals are doing things eh?

Seems to me that you are right on at least one other point Rob,as individuals our actions don`t amount to much.When we come together as supporting communities we start to accomplish things and make a difference.It takes supportive communities to band together and form strong local groups that can do things like hold local government accountable and bring about change on something like a state level.If the states(by way of the voters backing them) become strong enough then they can make changes to a nation or at least stand a chance to remaining strong in the face of federal interference.Those openly independent,gun toting local folks down in Arizona are facing just such a test right now aren`t they?
Independence works best if you support the equally independent person to the left,right,front and back of you.That support may make us interdependent but it also makes us much stronger.That,I think brings us full circle and back to the birth of the union movement in this country.
Too bad so many of the unions stopped thinking and acting like the unions they started as and became more like the chaos magicians in Washington DC.

[sawyer04]

I am afraid my experiences with unions of the trades have been negative, starting in the mid 80's to present time.I see shoddy craftsmanship. I complain to the contractor and get a stuff shirt union representive trying to convince me the project is of quality. I have seen union starting late and quiting early, but still under wages.
The unions were needed for safety and honest wages in the early years, but as in Europe the unions, maybe not all, have become socialistic. I still see many blue collars working an honest day for wages, but they are plagued with having to work with incompetent and lazy peers because of union protection. They pay their dues and get coaxed along by white collar stuff shirts that unity is the word.
The early years I work as a contractor with union and we appreciated each other and yes, I needed my ears pinned back a time or two. I am retired as of 7 years ago because it was time, but I think the unions need to really look at their agendas and pick their leaders wisely. I feel they are in for some hard times if they don't get off the high horse. I know several good union masons, carpenters, and tile layers off work because of the economy, or is it they priced themselves out of the market?

[jimbob]

I worked for the phone company for close to 38 years...early in my carrier we we had a job to do, I told the guy I was working with come on lets get it done..he looked at me and said "I get paid just as much to do it as not to do so I'm not going to do it"..its hard dealing with people like that!

[George Geist]

Bumping this one up to bring everybody up to date with some current events.

In regards to unions for blacksmiths, the International Union of Journeyman Horseshoers merged with the United Service Workers in 2004. It was decided in that reorganization that all the horseshoers and blacksmiths would be placed in Local 947. This union welcomed all horseshoers and blacksmiths but was perhaps best known for organizing the guys who worked at racetracks. 

Various track locals became chapters with elected officers and such but still all contained in Local 947.

In 2019 Local 947 disaffiliated from USW and as of February of this year joined the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers. 

In the 1950s at some point the Blacksmiths union joined the Boilermakers, thus the only 2 unions in the US to have blacksmiths in their ranks, the Horseshoers and the Boilermakers are now all together in the same union as of this year.

The Boilermakers union has a great deal to offer. I invite everyone to look at their website www.boilermakers.org

For those who might be interested in getting involved with Local 947 call 631-670-5660.

George 

 

BTW,

My work boots are made by Carolina. Made in Pennsylvania USA by Union Labor. Price was about $100 above and beyond anything else on the shelf. I was glad to pay it. 

I also don't spend any money in Wally world or horrible freight or any other such places. Is a matter of principle. 

George 

[George N. M.]

Dear George,

Interesting.  We could go on and on about "Buy USA" vs. buy for quality no matter where it is made or whether the consumer should spend his or her money to get the best value for themselves or pay more to support an agenda such as green, union made, domestically made, or the manufacturer supports  or opposes a particular cause.  However, I imagine that very few blacksmiths are unionized or would want to be since very few of them are employed for wages by an employer.  There are a few, sure, but almost everyone is a hobbyist, a small business person, or an artist where collective bargaining would be with themselves.  That said, a union may serve a useful purpose in influencing state labor laws in areas such as unemployment insurance coverage, group medical insurance, liability laws, local zoning, and workers' compensation coverage which could benefit an independent blacksmith.

Yours,

Another George

(former member of U.S. Steelworkers, Local 1010)

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[George Geist]

Hello George, 

To further expound on this thing a bit. Yes you're correct in the fact unions aren't for everybody, especially artists and hobbyists etc.

Labor laws in this country make it very difficult to join a union as an individual. In most situations there are only 3 ways in.

1) organize the place you work. 

This is a tough uphill battle that even if you're successful at you're likely to get fired over it. Been there, done that, got the t shirt.

2) take a job in an union shop.

This is how most people join but in most cases they choose the job and employer. The union just comes with the deal. Many of them might not be all that pro union going in thus not an easy bunch to keep happy.

3) serve an apprenticeship 

Folks who do this tend to make the best union people because they choose the union.  They don't ask or care who they'll be working for. Its seen in closed shop construction, maritime etc. Is probably the best way to work but downside is you spend half your life unemployed. 

It would be nice if people could join as an individual as they can in other countries but it is what it is.

Horseshoers union was a little different. Guys who work at racetracks are all independent contractors. Except for the guy who works the paddock. Paddock blacksmith is a track employee/racing official however they choose to word it. His pay and benefits package is negotiated by the union. Their contract is pretty short and simple as it covers only one man. Pay is usually a daily rate equivalent to about 2 shoeing jobs. Contracts are usually for 3 years with raises built into them plus a benefit package on top of it.

Additionally, the 3 main things the union does at the track is to get everybody on the same page with pricing, ensure bad payers don't get service till they pay up, and finally to train apprentices. 

The unions testing requirements ensure that only the most qualified people pass muster to work on expensive race horses. It's a symbiotic relationship that works well for everyone involved. 

Right now the union has a good benefit package that might be attractive for people that need it. The recent affiliation with the Boilermakers has improved that.

George