welding a fire pot

[3lbhammer]

I plan to make fire pot for a forge using plate maybe 3/8 to 1/2 inch. what would be a good rod to use to take higher fire pot heat and still do a good job of welding. ( I'm new to welding.)

[pkrankow]

If your pot is mild steel, then use 6011 and be done.

The rod being similar to the steel will be more resistant than the rod being different from the steel. The matching filler will expand and contract at the same rate as the base metal.

Phil

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

What rod depends on what type of welder that you have. AC only, AC/DC, and how many amps? If you have DC reverse capabilities I would say 7018 due to how smooth it runs, and how it has less possible slag inclusions than say 6010/6011. 6011 will work in an AC machine, is available at many locations, and is pretty easy to make work. Splatters big time, so protect the surrounding area, and any tools in range.

Which ever rod you use prep the joints so that you can get a 100% weld. In reality I don't think you will have any problems using 3/8"-1/2" steel. I have an old Buffalo forge that has a stamped sheet steel pan that is around 16-14 gauge. If you line the firebox with a refractory it will help protect the steel.

[LarryM]

What rod depends on what type of welder that you have. AC only, AC/DC, and how many amps? If you have DC reverse capabilities I would say 7018 due to how smooth it runs, and how it has less possible slag inclusions than say 6010/6011. 6011 will work in an AC machine, is available at many locations, and is pretty easy to make work. Splatters big time, so protect the surrounding area, and any tools in range.

Which ever rod you use prep the joints so that you can get a 100% weld. In reality I don't think you will have any problems using 3/8"-1/2" steel. I have an old Buffalo forge that has a stamped sheet steel pan that is around 16-14 gauge. If you line the firebox with a refractory it will help protect the steel.

YEA what he said plus this might help get you started Welded Fire Pot Drawing

Hope This Helps
Larry

[3lbhammer]

My firebox most likely will be mild steel. I have an old Lincoln stick welder . Thanks for all the really good suggestions.

[John McPherson]

Any steel rod will hold up to the heat of a fire pot. You would have to braze or solder it to have it fall apart. (Oh, the hilarity!)

That being said, 6010/6011 is a high penetration fast-freeze rod which will bridge gaps. That makes it useful for poor fit-up. (Uwanna grind or uwanna weld?) And it does well on rusty/dirty/flame cut edges. It requires no special storage, you can leave it on a shelf or behind the seat of your pickup for years, and it will work just fine. That's why it got the nickname "farmer rod", it is what holds most rural projects together. Yes, it spatters, and the slag is a PITA to clean up without a wire bush mounted in a grinder, and it leaves a rough texture. So what! This is going to be hidden under a layer of soot and ash soon anyway.

If you just have to make it pretty, or you want the practice, 7018 can make a lovely fill and cover pass weld, and the slag should chip easily. But, it requires special storage after the can is opened, or the welds made are prone to cracking. If you dump water in your hot fire pot, 7018 may quench crack anyway due to the higher carbon content.

[Thomas Dean]

To save a little time in joint prep make all of your joints "corner-to-corner". This will give you plenty of weld area. I would use E6010 root pass then the balance with E7018. Cleaner and faster...and looks nice to boot;)

[jmeineke]

What do you all think of using 7024 for something like that?

[HWHII]

All this being said is good advise and I would like to throw in my two cents worth and add a rod which no one else has mentioned and is very easy to run in fact runs practicly by itself if you strike a arc and just lay the rod down and is not very expensive is 6013. ;)

[clinton]

What do you all think of using 7024 for something like that?

7024 would not be the best choice as it will only weld in the flat position (the third number being a two indicates position 2= flat or horizontal only), but it will work if you can turn the pot flat and have access to the joint

[pkrankow]

All this being said is good advise and I would like to throw in my two cents worth and add a rod which no one else has mentioned and is very easy to run in fact runs practicly by itself if you strike a arc and just lay the rod down and is not very expensive is 6013.

I like using 6013, but it is a low penetration rod, so more passes would be necessary on the welds. Also if 3# is learning welding for eventual certification, 6013 is not typically used. You can check course curriculum for that.

On the other hand I have welded exhausts back together with 1/16 6013, and my skills ain't all that either. If learning to glue stuff together for the sake of getting it done, use the 6013, it is very forgiving.

Phil

[3lbhammer]

I have found out that one inch plate is about $30 a pound here. The is thick and needs to be welded in and out side joints but I think I can get a friend to the the torch work of cutting the sections. I like the plan offered here. I have some 6011

[Thomas Dean]

All this being said is good advise and I would like to throw in my two cents worth and add a rod which no one else has mentioned and is very easy to run in fact runs practicly by itself if you strike a arc and just lay the rod down and is not very expensive is 6013.

Although used in a lot of applications the E6013 rod was developed for welding sheet metal, 1/8" should be the max thickness.

[pkrankow]

I have found out that one inch plate is about $30 a pound here. The is thick and needs to be welded in and out side joints but I think I can get a friend to the the torch work of cutting the sections. I like the plan offered here. I have some 6011

I hope that is 30 cents, not 30 dollars a pound!

A 1 inch fire pot will be a challenge to wear out.
Phil

[BM454]

What type of welder do you have? If it's an AC only you will need to use 6011 Not 6010. The 6010 rod is for DC although I can't really tell the difference between the two. Both of them will burn ya up and everything around you if you're not careful. If you have a DC machine you can burn either rod. 60xx rods are good for someone who has not welded much or is just starting out. You can see your weld due to the fact they do not have a lot of slag to contend with. I would suggest burning a few rods on some scrap before you build your fire pot. The rods are cheap enough to do so. Now if you were burning nickel rods that's a different story.

[Bryce Masuk]

you can usually use 7018 with anything typically guys get used to using certain rods and use what they like

the best rods for most general purposes are 6011 and 7018 and i would say 7018 is better of the two with ac or dc it doesnt matter

after using both enough i like 7018 but I dont use stick as much as i used to it doesnt pay if your using it in the shop.

at work we use stick for 1/4 inch and above stainless fillet welds and for hard facing thats it

it will take a while to weld all of that with a stick and one inch plate with corner welds use the the biggest rod your machine can run which is probley 1/8th

[3lbhammer]

I have found out that one inch plate is about $30 a pound here. The is thick and needs to be welded in and out side joints but I think I can get a friend to the the torch work of cutting the sections. I like the plan offered here. I have some 6011 correction the one inch is $30 a sq ft
[/quote

[3lbhammer]

After study I think I will try 1/2 inch for the fire pot and 3/16 for the forge bottom with 2 or3 inch edge to hold fire brick.

[Francis Trez Cole]

I have made firepots for years and I have used 1/4" with great results there are pictures posted under brake drum forges

[3lbhammer]

Iam either going for 1/2 inch or a side blast forge. Not sure yet.

[Scott Hightower]

6010 would be the easiest and provide good penetration but you may get allot of weld spatter. Use the 6010 for a root pass, knock off all the spatter, then do a final cap pass with 7018 for a nice looking weld.

Scott
Fab Manager
Welders360

[arftist]

Now here is a rely that is bound to agravate someone, but that is not my intention.

Why, why, why, would anyone weld a root pass with 6010, then cap with 7018?

The only reason I could possibly see for this, would be improper fitup, and yet, 6010 isn't all that great at fixing improper fit up anyway (too much penetration), yet I hear and see this technique often.

I understand this is just a firepot, but in my world, even tacks are made with 7018, or if not, ground away thoroughly before being welded with 7018.

[arftist]

Now here is a rely that is bound to agravate someone, but that is not my intention.

Why, why, why, would anyone weld a root pass with 6010, then cap with 7018?

The only reason I could possibly see for this, would be improper fitup, and yet, 6010 isn't all that great at fixing improper fit up anyway (too much penetration), yet I hear and see this technique often.

I understand this is just a firepot, but in my world, even tacks are made with 7018, or if not, ground away thoroughly before being welded with 7018.

Anyone?

[jmeineke]

I guess my question would be, why would you not do it? Does it really matter if you use different rod? I mean, the metal you're welding probably doesn't perfectly match the properties of the <insert rod here> you weld with, so what does a third metal added in the mix matter?

I'm trying to find where I read it - maybe it was someone on the web or a book I read, but I do recall reading somewhere that a root pass of a 6010 or 6011 for poor fit-up followed by a 70XX series was acceptable.

Having said that, I could never seem to get the technique to work for me for the reasons you mentioned - I ended up blowing out the metal I was welding because of the deep penetrating arc, so I never tried it again. But that's just me.... I would imagine in the hands of a skilled welder, 601X at the right amperage / diameter rod would work as a root pass.

I didn't even know that it was an issue until I read on here (in several different places) that whatever you start with you should finish with. I'd like to know, though.

Edited July 17, 2010 by RefinedByFire

[Mainely,Bob]

Anyone?

My guess is the person who recommended it or one of his relatives used to be a pipe welder as that used to be the approved technique way back when.
That same technique is also used in marine repair when dealing with rusty,oily,or otherwise dirty steel and the 60 series rod is used to "burn in" the root pass and scour out the bad stuff and establish a base for the 70 series cover passes.
As you said,once the 70 series rod passes are in place the root was usually ground or gouged out from the back.
Can`t see why anyone starting with good clean steel and decent fit up would want to use a 60 series rod to start and then cover with 70 either.

The first 2 numbers of the rod designation have to do with strength,yield or shear strength I believe but not sure and my books are packed away.
Why would you want to start with a rod that had 10,000 less strength when you could just do the whole job with the higher strength rod?Less adjustments to the machine,less grinding of spatter,easier to clear flux,only have to carry one kind of rod, also are good reasons to do as Arftist suggests.
If you were going to Mig this project would you start with an equivalent to 60-- wire and then re-spool with 70 to finish?
In short the 70-- is stronger,that`s why.